Joining fees

[Tarkus1212]

£1630 entrance fee here for 7 day membership, with £1045 annual subs. Drops to £1280 and £855 for 5 day members. At least, that's what they advertise. No idea if they are open to negotiation.

Beyond my reach, even with a decent discount, but it is a club with 2 courses and a good reputation and so I think you are getting what you pay for. Beyond my reach, and that of many I suspect, where for occasional players, there are plenty of reasonable places to play and ok green fees.

It is of note that the last few years they are touting round for members - whereas in the past, there was always a waiting list.

You're talking about John O'Gaunt, where I am a member. The joining fee is as you posted and can be spread over a number of years (3 or 4, I'm not sure which). It would be difficult for the club to drop the joining fee as every single member has paid it. I have suggested to the committee that the joining fee should be spread over ten years, as long as the member remains liable for the balance if they leave. I've also suggested a reduced joining fee for couples/families but without any joy. We currently have some vacancies for 7 day members, which wasn't the case 10 years ago when we still had a waiting list, but not that many in comparison to other courses locally.

I joined JO'G because I was determined to join a private members club after some truly dreadful experiences as a member of proprietary clubs. The annual fee is comparable with courses like Abbotsley and St Neots but we have 2 courses which I believe are both far better than either of those. As I play around 100 rounds a year I think I get great VFM including the joining fee I paid. The only club I'd leave JO'G for is Woburn - but I need my 6 numbers to come up for that to happen.

Joining fees work for some clubs and for some golfers but obviously not for all.

 

[pigmeister]

I joined JOG in 1986, so my joining fee was much smaller but in proportion to my fees like it is now. I didn't need to think twice about the joining fee, which then had to be paid in one lump and the annual fee. I had a young family then but talking to my kids now they didn't miss the holidays, new clothes, presents at birthdays and Christmas and their pocket money. We all have to make sacrifices if we want something that badly. Joking aside, we have 2 great golf courses, so your actually paying half the annual fee and half the joining fee for each course. The others mentioned above are not in the same class as JOG, that's not being big headed, just the truth. Letchworth GC don't even own the course or the club house. If is a top golf club you want to be a member of, they do come at a price, you then have to decide is that price worth it.

 

[guest100718]

I joined JOG in 1986, so my joining fee was much smaller but in proportion to my fees like it is now. I didn't need to think twice about the joining fee, which then had to be paid in one lump and the annual fee. I had a young family then but talking to my kids now they didn't miss the holidays, new clothes, presents at birthdays and Christmas and their pocket money. We all have to make sacrifices if we want something that badly. Joking aside, we have 2 great golf courses, so your actually paying half the annual fee and half the joining fee for each course. The others mentioned above are not in the same class as JOG, that's not being big headed, just the truth. Letchworth GC don't even own the course or the club house. If is a top golf club you want to be a member of, they do come at a price, you then have to decide is that price worth it.

The main course at JOG is nice, the one over the road is OK (ish) i guess. The trouble with joining fees is that those that have payed them tend to begrudge dropping them for others, Are you still attracting lots of new members with that £1600 joining fee?

 

[GB72]

I paid a joining fee at my old club and 20% of the joining fee at my current one before it was dropped. I paid them because all of the non hotel based courses near me charged them. My issue is the argument that they stop people moving clubs so often and that is something I do not get. Surely clubs should be relying on the quality and condition of the course, the facilities and the friendly atmosphere to retain members rather than a financial penalty.

 

[hovis]

My four ball group want to join Whittington heath. The £1400 joining fee has made use decide against it.
The way i see it is they need members but not willing to drop the fee. So thats 4K of anual subs they have just let slip through their hands.

I like to have the freedom to move from club to club and the joining fee's make this impossible

 

[NWJocko]

My four ball group want to join Whittington heath. The £1400 joining fee has made use decide against it.
The way i see it is they need members but not willing to drop the fee. So thats 4K of anual subs they have just let slip through their hands.

I like to have the freedom to move from club to club and the joining fee's make this impossible

Do you see why your last sentence isn't great for golf clubs? Difficult to budget if the membership is pretty transient.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Do you see why your last sentence isn't great for golf clubs? Difficult to budget if the membership is pretty transient.

Not hard to budget at all. You know member a member will play x per annum. With no joining fees and the same amount per head coming in surely that's a lot easier than a variable that may or may not be on offer in each fiscal year. Golfers should have the freedom to move from club to club as circumstances dictate

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Not hard to budget at all. You know member a member will play x per annum. With no joining fees and the same amount per head coming in surely that's a lot easier than a variable that may or may not be on offer in each fiscal year. Golfers should have the freedom to move from club to club as circumstances dictate

No because a golf-club and its facilities, particularly the course, are long term "businesses".

 

[NWJocko]

Not hard to budget at all. You know member a member will play x per annum. With no joining fees and the same amount per head coming in surely that's a lot easier than a variable that may or may not be on offer in each fiscal year. Golfers should have the freedom to move from club to club as circumstances dictate

Homer, do you really think any business budgets for the current year only!? The biggest variable in any business is uncertainty, I'd imagine golfers paying a joining fee are exponentially more likely to be members for more than one year than those who don't? Therefore knowing "a" member will pay x is only useful if that member exists.

If Royal Ascot budgeted for this year only with no idea as to future income and, therefore, what expenditure on the course/machinery they could plan would you be happy?

Edit, MetalMickie beat me to it :thup:

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Homer, do you really think any business budgets for the current year only!? The biggest variable in any business is uncertainty, I'd imagine golfers paying a joining fee are exponentially more likely to be members for more than one year than those who don't? Therefore knowing "a" member will pay x is only useful if that member exists.

If Royal Ascot budgeted for this year only with no idea as to future income and, therefore, what expenditure on the course/machinery they could plan would you be happy?

Edit, MetalMickie beat me to it :thup:

Of course I don't but adding a variable like joining fees, especially deferring payments makes the budgeting and forecasting that much harder. As it happens the club has waived fees and membership has taken a significant upturn from a position where we had 70-100 vacancies to be almost full

 

[NWJocko]

Of course I don't but adding a variable like joining fees, especially deferring payments makes the budgeting and forecasting that much harder. As it happens the club has waived fees and membership has taken a significant upturn from a position where we had 70-100 vacancies to be almost full

What!?

The (almost to a 99% probability i reckon) certainty of having £X over a 3 year period through spreading joining fees makes budgeting harder?!? How?

Dropping fees will, short term, increase membership. Getting them to stay is the challenge as a lot more golfers these days do want to move from year to year as can be seen on this thread.

I'd suggest if someone pays a joining fee they are more likely to stick around for more than 1 year than someone who hasn't.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I'd suggest if someone pays a joining fee they are more likely to stick around for more than 1 year than someone who hasn't.

As I said elsewhere on here, there have been examples I know, both at my club and certainly elsewhere where people have left with deferred joining fees only partially paid off. As this was a contractual agreement when they joined it leaves the club in the tricky position of how hard do they push to get the outstanding money due through the channels available, both a timely and costly option, or do they write it off at some point

 

[NWJocko]

As I said elsewhere on here, there have been examples I know, both at my club and certainly elsewhere where people have left with deferred joining fees only partially paid off. As this was a contractual agreement when they joined it leaves the club in the tricky position of how hard do they push to get the outstanding money due through the channels available, both a timely and costly option, or do they write it off at some point

What percentage if people leave with a deferred joining fee unpaid?

To a degree, they haven't lost, they've gained the portion of the joining fee already received. When projecting future cash flow spread joining fees will, to an extent actually reduce the variability of membership income (anyone prudent would apply a certain amount of conservatism).

I'm not defending joining fees btw, more that I can see how they can help clubs plan in the medium term.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Clubs these days get the money from a credit company up front and then you pay them the payments

If members leave they still need to pay the full amount off via the credit agreement - a member of our club recently left before fully paying the joining fee - credit company still kept the credit agreement going

 

[Deleted member 18588]

My four ball group want to join Whittington heath. The £1400 joining fee has made use decide against it.
The way i see it is they need members but not willing to drop the fee. So thats 4K of anual subs they have just let slip through their hands.

I like to have the freedom to move from club to club and the joining fee's make this impossible

But that is the difference between a Members' Club like Whittington and a proprietary set-up like The Belfry.

A Members' Club is just that, owned by the members. There are no shareholders or parent company to fund course improvements, new machinery, clubhouse renovations etc;

The joining fee is your stakeholding in the "business" that is the Club and the business model for such clubs is not and never can be built round transient members.

 

[pigmeister]

The Carthagina is not as good as the main course I will admit, but its still better than most in the area and it`s open 365 days a year (apart from snow) when most other courses are shut because of flooding and standing water. We are not full, there are not many that are but we do have new members being interviewed each month. It is different from when I joined in May 85, I had to go 5 day until a place became available, which it did the following January. My mate who joined 10 months after me had to wait nearly 5 years. How times have changed.

 

[stevek1969]

What have they done to turn the course around. I remember a few years ago you were saying it was in poor condition.

What they did do was treat the greens with a treatment that killed of certain things, they were shocking for 4-5 months then came good i think the weather we had up here at the time was a major factor and the green keeper got lucky, i heard he got a rough ride at the AGM the other week, i wasn't there due to work but i knew what was going to be said.

In the winter its a cracking course which plays longer as they put built in astro mats at the back of the medal tees on the par 3s and theres no mats and full greens.

 

[Laka]

we have a joining fee around 1000 pound,,, in our club its an reverse loan with out interest rate,,, when leaving the club, you get the joining fee back...annual fee is about 450-500 pound

 

[backwoodsman]

Whole thing is a bit of a non-argument IMHO.

If a club levies a joining fee and has a waiting list, then people are obviously willing to pay it. If a club has vacancies on a permanent basis, then obviously the subs alone are enough of a deterrent and a JF isn't going to help attract people. You simply compare what you're paying in to what you expect in return - and decide if the sum add up for you. It's sod all to do with being "outdated", "anachronistic", "snobbish" or whatever. It's just one sort of business model - which will work for some and not for others.

We have a JF which is twice the annual subs. And given that our subs are high, the JF is somewhat higher than anything mentioned in the thread so far. But I was willing to pay it. And so, it seems, are the folks on the waiting list. And it all gets invested in the club and the course.

 

[PNWokingham]

Whole thing is a bit of a non-argument IMHO.

If a club levies a joining fee and has a waiting list, then people are obviously willing to pay it. If a club has vacancies on a permanent basis, then obviously the subs alone are enough of a deterrent and a JF isn't going to help attract people. You simply compare what you're paying in to what you expect in return - and decide if the sum add up for you. It's sod all to do with being "outdated", "anachronistic", "snobbish" or whatever. It's just one sort of business model - which will work for some and not for others.

We have a JF which is twice the annual subs. And given that our subs are high, the JF is somewhat higher than anything mentioned in the thread so far. But I was willing to pay it. And so, it seems, are the folks on the waiting list. And it all gets invested in the club and the course.

sums it up really! Good post