Membership fees, are they hurting clubs?

[IanM]

You mean like showering with the ladies?

I innocently meant anywhere else you reference your gender identity

 

[Deleted member 23270]

Completely agree. I would never consider a club that had a joining fee, unless it was a very small amount. Just ripping you off. I'd prefer a club that stops members leaving by treating it's members well and keeping a good course standard, not just by making them feel trapped as they paid a whopping joining fee.

Far from it, the money will be used to the benefit of ALL members by improving conditioning, facilities, new equipment etc. Like I said in post #22, ask to see you club accounts to get an idea of how much it costs to run a golf club.

 

[Sports_Fanatic]

Haven't read all so someone may have said it, but I don't think it's a case that joining fees only potentially dissuade joiners.

They collect additional joining forms, but they also create a barrier to entry. Not played much last year, perhaps change of circumstances like pushing for a promotion, kids etc. then you may consider leaving for a year and then joining back up. Are you really going to do that if you've paid £1k for entry and then would have to pay to rejoin? Yes you've already incurred the first £1k but psychologically i expect it persuades people to stay even if they aren't getting value due to playing too few rounds.

 

[IanM]

Far from it, the money will be used to the benefit of ALL members by improving conditioning, facilities, new equipment etc. Like I said in post #22, ask to see you club accounts to get an idea of how much it costs to run a golf club.

And if its a member owned club, think of it as a share purchase

 

[Orikoru]

Far from it, the money will be used to the benefit of ALL members by improving conditioning, facilities, new equipment etc. Like I said in post #22, ask to see you club accounts to get an idea of how much it costs to run a golf club.

That's what your membership subscription is for. Joining fee feels like paying for the same thing twice.

It doesn't cost them a grand to sign up another new member does it? That would be a hell of a lot of admin.

 

[Jimaroid]

I don’t think joining fees affect club finance all that much. It’s generally a very small number comparatively, a few thousand a year in overall accounts, given relatively stable membership churn of around 5% it doesn’t amount to a lot.

I think they exist to keep the chancers out of the club and I’m fine with that. If it makes people take the club seriously and mentally commit to membership that’s the whole point.

 

[Imurg]

I don’t think joining fees affect club finance all that much. It’s generally a very small number comparatively, a few thousand a year in overall accounts, given relatively stable membership churn of around 5% it doesn’t amount to a lot.

I think they exist to keep the chancers out of the club and I’m fine with that. If it makes people take the club seriously and mentally commit to membership that’s the whole point.

This...
It reduces the numbers that flit from club to club picking up the 12 months for the price of 10 deals..
Which helps the Club plan it's finances.

 

[Golfnut1957]

The Issues That NonMembers Want Golf Clubs to Address

We wanted to know what you think clubs need to do to attract more members and what you see as the problems facing clubs when it comes to recruitment. These comments were submitted by non-members as they described their suggestions regarding the issues that clubs need to address.

www.golfshake.com

This just appeared on my feed after reading this (a huge section about joining fee)

I read that earlier, a lot of the stuff they are requesting is already being done at many clubs, just not all. Some of the ideas are not as straight forward as they seem, such as twilight memberships. They sound fine but what about the full members who have been working all day and want a bit of twilight golf.

The daftest idea was for 6 month memberships. I wonder which 6 months they want, October to March? Thought not. I'm guessing they want to pay half a fee for the summer without any consideration for how the club functions during the winter months, and with the expectation that the club will still be there for them to return to.

 

[sunshine]

And if its a member owned club, think of it as a share purchase

Except you can’t sell your joining fee if you want to leave

 

[Deleted member 23270]

That's what your membership subscription is for. Joining fee feels like paying for the same thing twice.

It doesn't cost them a grand to sign up another new member does it? That would be a hell of a lot of admin.

I really think you don't understand the concept. Never mind maybe one day you'll get it.

 

[D-S]

At my club once you have paid the joining fee you never have to pay it again if you resign and rejoin at a later date. Seems sensible to me.

 

[Orikoru]

I really think you don't understand the concept. Never mind maybe one day you'll get it.

You said it's due to costs. Surely costs are yearly and covered by membership fees? Joining fee is extra to that. It's simply to either keep out poor people, or retain existing members without having to work for it. Or for pure profit.

 

[Jimaroid]

You said it's due to costs. Surely costs are yearly and covered by membership fees? Joining fee is extra to that.

It’s not extra, it’s the cost membership.

Do you think a deposit on a loan is an extra?

 

[IanM]

Except you can’t sell your joining fee if you want to leave

Indeed, but you'll get a divi if there's a surplus on liquidation

 

[TheDiablo]

We’re £3k for joining. Standard private members course. Well above average but well below top level

Full membership. 120 on waiting list, fully qualified annually

All that money goes onto capital expenditure projects to improve the course/club

Provides us with £100k per annum

Fully supportive of joining fees for a club looking to improve its product and provide value in the long term

Too much of life is now short termism- what do I get right her right now. Not good in my opinion

 

[Hobbit]

You said it's due to costs. Surely costs are yearly and covered by membership fees? Joining fee is extra to that. It's simply to either keep out poor people, or retain existing members without having to work for it. Or for pure profit.

People talk about a membership churn of around 5%. Typical membership total of 700. 5% = 35. 35x £1,000 = £35,000 in joining fees. As most clubs run with a relatively small profit because of VAT rules for the partial VAT exemption golf clubs enjoy the £35,000 is used up in operating costs.

If there was no joining fee, subs would rise by an extra £50. That’s around an extra 5% on top of the inflationary rise. For argument’s sake, and as a rough guide, you’re in excess of a double digit %. Existing Members won’t wear a rise so far above the current rate of inflation. The club would experience a greater churn which would drive subs up further. In truth, you’d be very hard pressed to get a rise like that through an AGM.

There’s juggling that could be done to mitigate it, i.e. by reducing spending but reducing spending means reducing the quality of the product. If a business needs joining fees to maintain its budget without hurting existing members too much, I’m all for it.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I wonder what the member retention numbers are like on those charging JF.

My current club is a non JF club and I think the run under the 10-15% membership churn per year. Now that figure is across all categories and from juniors through to vets but we always have newbies jointing so I believe the numbers are pretty stable overall.

Is it a case that with a members club with maybe 5% member turn they can afford to run the JF scheme.

We have 624 full members and last renewal I think about 25-30 didn‘t renew…all replaced from the waiting list, and all paying a JF.

 

[Oddsocks]

People talk about a membership churn of around 5%. Typical membership total of 700. 5% = 35. 35x £1,000 = £35,000 in joining fees. As most clubs run with a relatively small profit because of VAT rules for the partial VAT exemption golf clubs enjoy the £35,000 is used up in operating costs.

If there was no joining fee, subs would rise by an extra £50. That’s around an extra 5% on top of the inflationary rise. For argument’s sake, and as a rough guide, you’re in excess of a double digit %. Existing Members won’t wear a rise so far above the current rate of inflation. The club would experience a greater churn which would drive subs up further. In truth, you’d be very hard pressed to get a rise like that through an AGM.

There’s juggling that could be done to mitigate it, i.e. by reducing spending but reducing spending means reducing the quality of the product. If a business needs joining fees to maintain its budget without hurting existing members too much, I’m all for it.

Finally, someone breaking it down to brass tax. I like it.

Thanks hobbit.

Ps. I think it should be spread over a short period as Imurg posted though, I’d hate to stump a cost up only to realise I didn’t like the product I’d been sold.

 

[clubchamp98]

Serious question but how does that fly with the transgender issues. If I apply to join and identify as female do I get the save £1400.00, would I have to pay if I then reverted to male pronouns.

This is not meant as a dig or any comment on the club nor is it meant at any comment on gender issues but simply an interest in how gender specific benefits apply in a more gender fluid world.

In reality I don’t know!

But I imagine if you say your a woman you would not pay the JF.
Women’s comps only and changing rooms.
I can see the ladies not liking that.
What happens after that ?.. I assume you would have to leave and reapply as a male golfer.


On the JF.
Given the Equality laws I really don’t know how they can do this ( apparently they can) private club.
Plenty of members not happy with it .

ps Given it’s an interview prprocess you need a proposer and seconded ,and your name goes on the board for any objections I can see someone putting a “black ball” in the way.
If that’s still a thing.

 

[clubchamp98]

I innocently meant anywhere else you reference your gender identity

Can’t get away with it in the showers.
Call yourself what you like , but it’s proven in the showers!