At what point does a membership become value for money?

[Orikoru]

Yes I would have paid more than the individual green fees but I get a lot more for my money from being a member than just golf. It really isn't that difficult.

Would have to be a HELL of a lot more to offset that amount. Like free food and drink? Company car?

Don't get me wrong, if I was close to breaking even, say I played 35 or 40 rounds, I'd probably still say it was worth it to be part of the club and so on. But I was talking about an analogy where you played a very low number of rounds. You can't say being a member of a club is worth £1300 on top of what the rounds would have cost (£700 in this example). That's lunacy.

 

[Albo]

It’s not always black and white, everyone is different.
I know someone who is a member of a very prestigious East Lothian club, to my knowledge he’s not played a round there for the last 5 years at least. Yet he quite happily pays his yearly subs every year, I actually don’t think he’s even been the the club house or set foot on the property in that time either, at least to my knowledge, he only plays about 5 - 10 rounds a year anywhere and never at that course. If he gave up his membership there is a wait list into double figure years to get back in which I think is now closed anyway. To me I’d struggle to find VFM there, but he’s happy, should he ever want to play golf there he can.

 

[Orikoru]

It’s not always black and white, everyone is different.
I know someone who is a member of a very prestigious East Lothian club, to my knowledge he’s not played a round there for the last 5 years at least. Yet he quite happily pays his yearly subs every year, I actually don’t think he’s even been the the club house or set foot on the property in that time either, at least to my knowledge, he only plays about 5 - 10 rounds a year anywhere and never at that course. If he gave up his membership there is a wait list into double figure years to get back in which I think is now closed anyway. To me I’d struggle to find VFM there, but he’s happy, should he ever want to play golf there he can.

So he is rich then. Or his wife hasn't found out about this.

 

[Deleted member 23270]

Would have to be a HELL of a lot more to offset that amount. Like free food and drink? Company car?

Don't get me wrong, if I was close to breaking even, say I played 35 or 40 rounds, I'd probably still say it was worth it to be part of the club and so on. But I was talking about an analogy where you played a very low number of rounds. You can't say being a member of a club is worth £1300 on top of what the rounds would have cost (£700 in this example). That's lunacy.

IF I was a millionaire it wouldn't be lunacy but I just picked a random number as an example. Don't take it literally as 5 rounds.

 

[Albo]

So he is rich then. Or his wife hasn't found out about this.

I don’t know too much about his financial status but were I a betting man, I’d say it’s the former, or at least his family has money somewhere

 

[Deleted member 23270]

It’s not always black and white, everyone is different.
I know someone who is a member of a very prestigious East Lothian club, to my knowledge he’s not played a round there for the last 5 years at least. Yet he quite happily pays his yearly subs every year, I actually don’t think he’s even been the the club house or set foot on the property in that time either, at least to my knowledge, he only plays about 5 - 10 rounds a year anywhere and never at that course. If he gave up his membership there is a wait list into double figure years to get back in which I think is now closed anyway. To me I’d struggle to find VFM there, but he’s happy, should he ever want to play golf there he can.

A friend of mine once played with a very rich American that is a member of at least half a dozen top private clubs in the States, I forget which ones but they will all be six figure annual subs plus huge 'initiation' fees as they are called over there. VFM? Highly unlikely but he obviously thinks so. Maybe he does multi million dollar business deals through his contacts at these clubs which covers his fees!

 

[Orikoru]

IF I was a millionaire it wouldn't be lunacy but I just picked a random number as an example. Don't take it literally as 5 rounds.

That example is what we've been debating! If you were near the 'break even threshold' if you like, then yes, of course you could offset the lost money by pointing to the other things you gain as a club member.

 

[GB72]

I think that this has gone down a very narrow alleyway.

Everyone sees things differently.

Some are members of a club simply to say they are members of a prestigious club.
Some are members of a club and the social aspect off the course as well as the golf is their life.
Some use their club like a gym, somewhere to perform an activity.

And there are many other reasons.

I was never comfortable with golf club social life and certainly have no interest in prestige and so my decision was more on how often I used the facilities, pretty much like a gym membership and so my internal calculation was pretty simple. Others will be different. Yes, you could get the rounds cheaper as a non member but if your life revolves around the clubhouse and your friends are all members, the cost per round is less relevant. Me, I would only count my playing partners as acquaintances, decent company but it was not like we were meeting each others families and going on nights out so, again, not a consideration for me but essential to others.

To some the VFM may drop if their friends leave or the clubhouse closes, any number of things.

 

[Albo]

A friend of mine once played with a very rich American that is a member of at least half a dozen top private clubs in the States, I forget which ones but they will all be six figure annual subs plus huge 'initiation' fees as they are called over there. VFM? Highly unlikely but he obviously thinks so. Maybe he does multi million dollar business deals through his contacts at these clubs which covers his fees!

That’s sort of what I was getting at, what is value for money for one person might not be for someone else.
Some people may derive value from saying I’m a member at Xx club, a sort of status symbol.
I guess it’s kind of like cars to a degree (probably a bad analogy), you can get a cheap car brand and it will function fine, someone who is financially not in a great place may not see the value in driving IDK a BMW, after all it does no different a thing from the car he or she drives, and the BMW driver may not see the value in a Roles Royce etc.
As l say VFM means different things to different people

 

[RichA]

That example is what we've been debating! If you were near the 'break even threshold' if you like, then yes, of course you could offset the lost money by pointing to the other things you gain as a club member.

Value for money means different things to different people. Not necessarily just cost per round.
Same as anything else. Who really needs a £1400 mobile phone, £90,000 car, £10,000 holiday, £50 bottle of wine, £1M house, £550 driver...?
I know people who have one of each of these things but probably think the others are bourgeois idiots.
Diff'rent strokes, innit!

 

[Deleted member 23270]

That example is what we've been debating! If you were near the 'break even threshold' if you like, then yes, of course you could offset the lost money by pointing to the other things you gain as a club member.

It really isn't about being close to the break even threshold! It's about how it makes you feel. Timex v Rolex, old Vauxhall Cavalier v brand new M5, Michelin restaurant v greasy spoon. They all serve the same purpose.

I'm not discussing this any further.

 

[GB72]

This understanding of a golf club membership meaning different things to different people is something that I have found lacking in the past and was a factor in my giving up.

I wanted to play golf, that is fine, but then I wanted to go home and spend time with my wife and my friends. 'Oh No' the members said 'that makes you a car park golfer and we cannot have that. That is the lowest of the low not committing your life to the club'. No, it makes me someone with different social priorities and levels of significance given to golf as part of my life. Sadly some cannot accept that golf does have differing levels of priority and significance to different people. To my mum, it is everything since my dad died.

 

[Orikoru]

Value for money means different things to different people. Not necessarily just cost per round.
Same as anything else. Who really needs a £1400 mobile phone, £90,000 car, £10,000 holiday, £50 bottle of wine, £1M house, £550 driver...?
I know people who have one of each of these things but probably think the others are bourgeois idiots.
Diff'rent strokes, innit!

I agree with that, but only up to a point, that's all. If you've paid £2000, but only played 10 rounds and the green fee there is £100, then you have undeniably wasted £1000. Fact, not opinion. If you played 16 or 17 rounds then maybe you can argue it's close enough and you still got value from using the clubhouse etc.
None of these other analogies make any sense unless you can get the exact same version of them for less money. It'd be more like buying a 24 pack of beers for £30 when they only cost £1 each individually. And then saying you still got value for money because you enjoyed the beers. It's just wrong.

It really isn't about being close to the break even threshold! It's about how it makes you feel. Timex v Rolex, old Vauxhall Cavalier v brand new M5, Michelin restaurant v greasy spoon. They all serve the same purpose.

I'm not discussing this any further.

As above, none of these analogies are in anyway similar. Rather than a Timex v Rolex, it's more like paying £10,000 for a £5000 Rolex.

 

[Albo]

This understanding of a golf club membership meaning different things to different people is something that I have found lacking in the past and was a factor in my giving up.

I wanted to play golf, that is fine, but then I wanted to go home and spend time with my wife and my friends. 'Oh No' the members said 'that makes you a car park golfer and we cannot have that. That is the lowest of the low not committing your life to the club'. No, it makes me someone with different social priorities and levels of significance given to golf as part of my life. Sadly some cannot accept that golf does have differing levels of priority and significance to different people. To my mum, it is everything since my dad died.

I totally agree with this. I’m exactly the same as you in that respect, I arrive put my shoes on at the car, play my golf load up my car and drive home again. I take no part in the club at all, I rarely if ever go into the pro shop (unless it’s busy and I need to check in), I equally rarely go into the bar or changing rooms. I never enter the comps nor play with other members who are not from a very select band of 3 others, when I play alone I will usually politely decline the offer to join others. I am there for the purpose of playing golf, it’s not a social or club thing for me, I feel no pride nor attachment to the club.
Yet there are those who are quite the opposite, Im happy for them, don’t judge them or pass comments, yet as you say, im viewed as some sort of car park golfer or none conformist. Thankfully I don’t care as I rarely talk to any of the others anyway

 

[Oddsocks]

Straightforward enough calculation, isn't it? Take how often you'd like to play, work out how much that would cost you, and then see if a membership is less than that.

You go easy with common sense!

 

[Albo]

I agree with that, but only up to a point, that's all. If you've paid £2000, but only played 10 rounds and the green fee there is £100, then you have undeniably wasted £1000. Fact, not opinion.

It'd be more like buying a 24 pack of beers for £30 when they only cost £1 each individually. And then saying you still got value for money because you enjoyed the beers. It's just wrong.

I think you’re almost right, in the first bit, you have undeniably spent more money on those 10 rounds than you could have got them for, but that does not mean it’s wasted.
As I say someone may take pride in saying I am a member at Xx golf club, which they could say had they spent the £2000 on membership and only played £1000 worth of green fees, yet could not say that had they just spent the £1000 on green fees. To them there may be value in their life in saying they are a member of Xx golf club, and if they put that value at £1000.01 or greater then they will quite rightly argue they are getting value for money, just because you don’t, doesn’t mean they don’t.
And your last bit sort of proves it, yes £30 for a 24 pack of beer when an individual can is £1 doesn’t appear in any way value, and on a can for cash basis it isn’t, but if I had 23 friends coming over and no bag to put the single cans into, the extra £6 might well be worth it for a sealed crate I could carry home.
Edit to say
The beer analogy is more akin to buying 24 because you don’t know how many you will drink, you only end up drinking 10 and end up pouring the rest down the sink as they have gone off.
Doesn’t mean you didn’t enjoy the 10 you did drink, nor that you felt you had found value to be covered for an eventually that didn’t arise

 

[IanM]

Sitting on the patio at Saunton with a cooked breakfast on a summer's morning....... priceless

(If you see what I mean)

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Whilst monetary value is important to many, some things cannot have a monetary value applied to them.
Critisising someone for how they spend their money is silly and pointless because if truth be known, those critisising could well be critisised for spending what they do on other things.
Thankfully, this isn't North Korea.

 

[RichA]

I agree with that, but only up to a point, that's all. If you've paid £2000, but only played 10 rounds and the green fee there is £100, then you have undeniably wasted £1000. Fact, not opinion. If you played 16 or 17 rounds then maybe you can argue it's close enough and you still got value from using the clubhouse etc.
None of these other analogies make any sense unless you can get the exact same version of them for less money. It'd be more like buying a 24 pack of beers for £30 when they only cost £1 each individually. And then saying you still got value for money because you enjoyed the beers. It's just wrong.

I think of it more like spending money on any other thing that we don't really need.
They only play 10 times a year and are paying more than basic green fees, but like whatever being a member of that club provides to them.
I could drive my 1500 miles a month in a Suzuki Swift, but I prefer a bigger, more comfortable car. It doesn't mean I wasted the additional £10,000.
If you can afford it and you like it, why not?

 

[Barking_Mad]

I like the flexibility of being a member, but come winter it's £120 a month of dead money given how wet it is. Last 12 months it's worked out at £35 a round. I guess that's fair enough.