Jeremy Corbyn

[TheDiablo]

Survival of the fittest - it applies not just a biology lesson about evolution, but also people, cities, regimes, businesses, countries etc etc

The manufacturing, mining, textiles etc etc industries and the cities that used to thrive on them were being artificially propped up at the detriment of the economy since the war - something had to change or we would have been left further behind than we are. Does anyone propose that we should still be active in these industries on a global scale?!

Many suffered as a result of Thatcher, many others prospered. I'd argue that the national economy today is in a far better place than had a Labour/Trade Union govt been in power for those terms - and so the short term pain has led to long term gain for millions.

And this 'managed decline' term has been used more in this thread than the 15 years of Thatcher govt where it was used once in a private letter!!

 

[SocketRocket]

Excuse me ? Everyone is entitled to an opinion and to voice their opinion regardless of if I voted or not

When did I say she didn't have a mandate ?!

You are entitled to an opinion but when it comes to politics yours is worthless as you have left it to others to decide the Government for you.

You suggested she was not voted in by a majority of the voters and as such not worthy to hold mandate.

 

[SocketRocket]

Not so sure, the guy certainly has momentum with him. He has a nice quiet common touch, which makes a change from being lectured to by folk who have never done a days work outside of politics.
I think he also has the youth behind him. The same youth who have switched off politics for over a decade now.
There is definitely change afoot in British politics, the Tories only got in as the slightly less worse option.

Have you looked at his work history? Not really one that inspires you to believe he has been at the coal face.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You are entitled to an opinion but when it comes to politics yours is worthless as you have left it to others to decide the Government for you.

You suggested she was not voted in by a majority of the voters and as such not worthy to hold mandate.

When did in say I left it to others to decide

Appears your memory is going as I voted and I made my decision

So I will continue to post my views and opinions

I suspect after posting false information about someone an apology is normally forthcoming - will wait and see

 

[bluewolf]

at the coal face.

Interesting terminology

 

[Deleted member 18588]

the areas that surrounded me were kitchen sink Council estates, where poverty and unemployment were commonplace.

The poverty and unemployment to which you refer existed long before and continues after the Thatcher government.

 

[bluewolf]

The poverty and unemployment to which you refer existed long before and continues after the Thatcher government.

If you're going to take 1 sentence out of context and base your response on it, then there are better ones to pick.. If you want to answer the post as a whole then your opinions would be welcomed..

 

[FairwayDodger]

The poverty and unemployment to which you refer existed long before and continues after the Thatcher government.

Perhaps a great leader would have resolved that?

 

[SocketRocket]

When did in say I left it to others to decide

Appears your memory is going as I voted and I made my decision

So I will continue to post my views and opinions

I suspect after posting false information about someone an apology is normally forthcoming - will wait and see

Nothing to do with my memory, all I remember is you making various posts saying you don't vote in elections.

If you actually did and have turned over a new leaf then good for you and I would gladly take my comment back. The one on the validity of voting percentages still stands though.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

If you're going to take 1 sentence out of context and base your response on it, then there are better ones to pick.. If you want to answer the post as a whole then your opinions would be welcomed..

Sorry but that what was the basis of your previous post.

Yes she was divisive and I certainly am no devotee of many of her policies but the alternative open to us in 1979 meant her rise was inevitable.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Nothing to do with my memory, all I remember is you making various posts saying you don't vote in elections.

If you actually did and have turned over a new leaf then good for you and I would gladly take my comment back. The one on the validity of voting percentages still stands though.

If you read back through the thread you will see exactly why I mentioned that Thatcher got 40% of the votes and the context it was made into

Someone suggested she must have done a good day for the majority because they voted her back in - where as the majority of the voters didn't - yes she got more votes than others etc etc and got a bigger majority than the others but it wasn't the majority of the voters

 

[SocketRocket]

Perhaps a great leader would have resolved that?

"The poor you will always have with you"

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Perhaps a great leader would have resolved that?

Sadly no leader yet has looked like resolving that. Certainly not in a mixed or market economy and communism does not appear to have provided the answer.

Anyway I would never claim that she was a great leader but (until1987) and like Churchill in 1940 she was necessary for the nation's survival.

 

[SocketRocket]

If you read back through the thread you will see exactly why I mentioned that Thatcher got 40% of the votes and the context it was made into

Someone suggested she must have done a good day for the majority because they voted her back in - where as the majority of the voters didn't - yes she got more votes than others etc etc and got a bigger majority than the others but it wasn't the majority of the voters

I think you will find it was. 'The majority' means more than any others in that case.

 

[Hobbit]

And it's not on to accuse me of looking to score points when I'm telling you that Thatchers actions weren't for the good of the whole country and I'm giving you facts that they effected millions in a negative way.

Managed decline is a disgraceful phrase - but that's exactly what was suggested by her cabinet in regards Liverpool.

No it wasn't. It was suggested by Geoffrey Howe, but argued against by arghhh, the then Secretary of State for Industry... Westlands heli... got it, Heseltine. Margaret Thatcher visited Liverpool and meet with various civic leaders. It was found that it was Liverpool's police force that had behaved disgracefully. A force made up predominantly of Liverpudlians.

But just for a little bit of balance, and also learned first hand as I lived just over the border in nth Wales - commuting distance from L'pool. Liverpool, and most of the local industries were run by the unions. Local industry was ruined by them, not the Conservatives. It was a huge joke locally that all a docker had to do was pick a brush and someone would shout job demarcation. Everybody and their dog would down tools and go down the pub - usually every Friday morning, returning on Monday - repeat next weekend. And then there was the docker's threepenny bit, often given as a tip by a docker. 50p at a time when people were on less than £20 a week. Vauxhall at Ellesmere Port spent more time closed than open.... people were starving back then because the strength of the unions kept them out of work. That was the union power back then, and that was what Thatcher took on.

I remember Labour in govt in the late 60's and late 70's, and I remember what it was like in L'pool then. Don't tell me you want to blame the Cons for all the ills then, when they were in opposition.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I think you will find it was. 'The majority' means more than any others in that case.

And if you read through the thread I had already said the majority I was saying means over 50% in the context of the conversation that was happening at the time.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Sadly no leader yet has looked like resolving that. Certainly not in a mixed or market economy and communism does not appear to have provided the answer.

Anyway I would never claim that she was a great leader but (until1987) and like Churchill in 1940 she was necessary for the nation's survival.

Obviously I'm bandying words since it's a fairly intractable problem. I wonder if people were better or worse off under her, however? I guess there must be statistics we could refer to... unemployment numbers might be a good place to start?

I do think saying she was necessary for "the nation's survival" is a tad melodramatic, don't you agree?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

"The poor you will always have with you"

Yes but we always seem to have a bit more when the Tories are in power

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Obviously I'm bandying words since it's a fairly intractable problem. I wonder if people were better or worse off under her, however? I guess there must be statistics we could refer to... unemployment numbers might be a good place to start?

I do think saying she was necessary for "the nation's survival" is a tad melodramatic, don't you agree?

Unemployment reached record figures under Thatcher
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22070491

 

[chrisd]

I do think saying she was necessary for "the nation's survival" is a tad melodramatic, don't you agree?

Maybe, but the country needed someone really strong to take on the issues of the day. We had the winter of discontent, unions who were ruining the companies their members worked for, the 3 day week, tax bands up to 98%, and she waded into these problems and sorted them. She also sold off the hugely loss making privatised companies, sold council houses without which many of us wouldn't now own our own properties. She was influential in helping resolve the cold war. She worked on bringing in foreign investment to our country.

She was a great leader!