Is this cheating 2

[Blue in Munich]

phew I thought I was only one thinking this . Probably not as frowned upon as the other case but doing something on purpose to maintain a handicap that does not reflect ability is cheating .
As for cheating only ur self what if maintaining a falsely low handicap keeps another player out of a comp they genuinely should be in (over here there are elite comps with limited numbers often with reserve list ) it's not right ,
not as frowned upon as first one but in reality what is the difference .?

The difference for me is that this player has achieved a decent standard and is more concerned about his handicap going up preventing him entering other Cat 1 comps for a couple of poor results. The other player knows damn well he is playing to a far better standard than his handicap suggests and is deliberately avoiding entering comps to give himself a better chance than he should have in a competition final. Whilst they both manipulating their handicaps, only one is doing it for what I would consider dishonest reasons and therefore only one is a cheat for me.

 

[JohnnyDee]

Agree with BiM’s last post. In my view keeping a handicap artificially high is a sin. Keeping it low is not.

 

[robinthehood]

If handicap manipulation is cheating the n what's the difference here? Sorry you can't rip someone in one thread but turn a blind eye in another.

 

[Hobbit]

If handicap manipulation is cheating the n what's the difference here? Sorry you can't rip someone in one thread but turn a blind eye in another.

That's too simplistic.

On one hand you have someone who by manipulating his handicap is winning off an artificially high handicap. In the other you've got someone who is potentially losing because his handicap is potentially too low.

One is cheating other members, and one is potentially cheating himself.

 

[Mark1751]

Surely avoiding competitions to keep your handicap either higher or lower than they are is manipulating them so would be against the rules.

 

[BubbaP]

Isn't this (or similar) where the term "vanity handicap" comes from.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Cheating?...no. Unethical?.....moreso.
I read the OP as needing to be cat 1 to be able to enter comps (probably next year?) that require him to be cat 1 at entry. I'm sure he isnt the only one with this thought process who are close to the 5.5 mark.
Most cat 1's I know don't worry about going up 0.1 after a round because they expect to get it back almost straight away.
With that thought process not evident here, perhaps therein lies the answer.

 

[Imurg]

That's too simplistic.

On one hand you have someone who by manipulating his handicap is winning off an artificially high handicap. In the other you've got someone who is potentially losing because his handicap is potentially too low.

One is cheating other members, and one is potentially cheating himself.

Isn't it in a similar vein to replacing your ball on the green closer to or further away from the hole..?
The first is cheating the field, the second cheating yourself - neither can be right can they?

 

[Tommo21]

Surely avoiding competitions to keep your handicap either higher or lower than they are is manipulating them so would be against the rules.

What rule is that......I've played over 30 Q rounds already this year. Was up to six now back to 5. I could play 10 more before winter, if I don't what rule am I breaking.

 

[Sports_Fanatic]

That's too simplistic.

On one hand you have someone who by manipulating his handicap is winning off an artificially high handicap. In the other you've got someone who is potentially losing because his handicap is potentially too low.

One is cheating other members, and one is potentially cheating himself.

But as someone pointed out, artificially maintaining a handicap to enter comps may restrict another competitor from entering. The other potential is that they enter, have a good day and then potentially win a competition they shouldn't have been eligible for if as they suspected their handicap may have gone up placing them outside the qualifying criteria.

If they just weren't free to play, didn't have time or simply didn't fancy rounds then that's fine. Saying you're deliberately doing it because you don't want to go above a certain level is manipulating it. Yes less frowned upon, but not hugely different.

 

[jusme]

They are both cheating. It does not matter who they are cheating (themselves or others) and it should not be defended. To say it is only hurting themselves therefore it is a less form of cheating is pedantic at best.

Whats to say that if he enters the last several competitions and gets cut in all of them. He is assuming that will not happen and if it were to then he is also going to playing of a handicap higher than his ability.

This is why ANY handicap protection is wrong, regardless of the number of victims

 

[Grant85]

I agree it is definitely not cheating.

However, I think the longer term impact for your game is negative, or potentially negative.

You will be more likely to find it harder to play to that lower handicap if you don't test yourself. Obviously if you are still practising, that is probably more important than playing, but I would certainly be inclined to keep doing what you are doing in terms of practising and playing regularly rather than trying to put the hand brake on.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

It’s a very common and it’s also handicap manipulation and most people do it to allow themselves to enter high profile amateur comps at great courses with cheap entrance fees but because a lot of times these events end up being R/O or high CSS people don’t get their .1 back so a lot of people will be on vanity low HC.

Is it cheating ? Well yes but in the sense that you will be cheating yourself by playing to a HC you can’t currently.

Go out and play - any Handicap Manipulation imo should be different with strongest sanctions - it’s disrespectful to the sport and also to your fellow golfers

 

[garyinderry]

Not even close to the antics of the guy in the other thread.


Its a matter of timing for this player. Been hammering comps all year and getting cuts and 0.1s.

The stats will say if he were to play in the 6 events, on average he would go up over the threshold.

Play one more, buffer, then play another and so on. If not, hold fire on 5.4, enjoy the fruits of your endeavours this year. Push on with the practice and see where it goes from there.


This is a timing issue for me as statistically he wont have time to play rounds, take the points ones and then hit a good patch and get cut enough to get well under the threshold.

 

[Tommo21]

They are both cheating. It does not matter who they are cheating (themselves or others) and it should not be defended. To say it is only hurting themselves therefore it is a less form of cheating is pedantic at best.

Whats to say that if he enters the last several competitions and gets cut in all of them. He is assuming that will not happen and if it were to then he is also going to playing of a handicap higher than his ability.

This is why ANY handicap protection is wrong, regardless of the number of victims

Is there a penalty for this cheating.....

 

[cookelad]

You could just as easily get cut from those competitions, sounds like you're carrying a little form at least, how would you feel if the good form continues and you don't play in the comps to maintain your handicap and end up winning the low handicapper comps because suddenly your handicap is artificially high even though you thought you were protecting to keep it low?

Being category 1 is a badge of honour (at least for the next year and a bit) but your handicap takes care of itself

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Your only cheating yourself here. Personally I wouldn’t be able to get it out of my head that I protected my handicap to enter a competition.
But in hindsight people play a lot less qualifiers than me so what are they?

My handicap is 8.5. It is our club champs this coming Saturday. As I work from home I could go out after work any evening this week and put in a supplementary - and I might get cut 0.1 - and so I would play off 8 rather than 9. But I am not going to do that. There is no imperative that tells me I should do as much as I can - whenever I can - to put a card in.

I am playing on a bit of a knife edge at the moment and very variable. I could knock it round under my handicap but it is more likely that I won't. My current 9 handicap is closer to how I am playing than 8.

For me what the OP is doing is just fine and is in no sense cheating either himself or others.

 

[User 99]

You could just as easily get cut from those competitions, sounds like you're carrying a little form at least, how would you feel if the good form continues and you don't play in the comps to maintain your handicap and end up winning the low handicapper comps because suddenly your handicap is artificially high even though you thought you were protecting to keep it low?

Being category 1 is a badge of honour (at least for the next year and a bit) but your handicap takes care of itself

You're absolutely correct and funny that a few have said that it's artificially low and can't play to it which is bizarre given that's how handicaps work as it was my scores that got me there and have already stated later in the topic that I just three it out there and will be playing in all qualifiers I can make.

 

[garyinderry]

Id imagine those comps the op wants to enter will be off scratch so no advantage gained there.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Id imagine those comps the op wants to enter will be off scratch so no advantage gained there.

Unless as some have stated he denies someone else the opportunity.
What’s the difference between this guy missing qualifiers at the end of the season and the other guy in the middle of the season.
Both are looking at their season goals and how to achieve them.