Is Mourinho trying to be too clever?

[Liverbirdie]

I know you can't judge him overall until he's had 2 seasons under his belt, to build a team his own way, but is he trying to be too clever?

Lukaku going with his consent.
Another manager trying, and so far failing to get Torres back to pre-Chelsea form.
Keeping Ba and trying to get him back to pre-Chelsea form.
Getting in Eto, despite his age.
Selling Mata, to a club who even if only next season will still be a major rival,despite being Chelsea's best player over the previous 2 seasons.
Coming in and maybe making a point of "taking on" the clubs best player over the last two years, as if to say, that means nothing to me - prove yourself again.

Mourinho has got more decisions right than wrong over the last 10 years, and each of the above points has its own merits, or not. But, is he trying to upset the apple cart too much, and do Chelsea fans, and others, think the same?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Maureen is trying to do it his way - like he always has

He is a good manager who has done very well - I think at first his greatest gift was picking the right clubs and build from there

At Porto he had the strongest club in the league and built on that with an impressive CL win

That allowed him to take his pick of clubs

Liverpool and Chelsea wanted him but it was an obvious choice to go to Chelsea - Raneri had already bought a great deal and Maureen had the resources to pick who he wanted and he did

Things then went a bit sour for him and he left as Chelsea were struggling ( relatively to previous years )

He then picked a team that had won the Italian League 3 or 4 times in a row - spent more money after the crazy Ibrahimovic and won another CL - great win if not horrific tactics

After that it was obvious he would go to the biggest club in the world - his success earned him that

I think it was 3 or 4 seasons there trying to break the Barce domination and win another CL - I think he ended up with one title so I would say especially after all the money that was spent it was prob his least successful job

Now going back to Chelsea is a brave move because there is another big player in town now - - City

I think he did want the ManUtd job because his ego would have loved to take over from Taggert

But going to Chelsea with the riches still available gives him a chance to win the prem when it's even stronger than it was

He is making some strange choices - Etoo, Lukaku , Mata

All choices that I think weaken his squad

Willian is a decent player but he isn't in Matas class - Oscar is a decent player but again not in Matas class

A forward player like Lukaku supported by Hazard , Oscar and Mata would have ripped through teams

Is his ego trying to prove that he can get Torres firing again - I would say yes

Etoo I believe he has gone to a known trusted accomplice

The Mata sale - I have my own theory on that but it was clear from day one Maureen didnt want him - I believe it could be down to the players relationship to the previous manager

The last two season Di Matteo and Rafa have delivered the CL and the Europa Lge with Mata at the heart of it -

If Chelsea win nothing then Maureen could find himself being questioned and under pressure quickly

 

[jimbob.someroo]

As with any manager - I guess the proof will be in the results at the end of the year.

Definitely agree with some of the original points though. Mata was the best midfielder (for me) in that Chelsea squad in terms of putting in a decent performance week after week.

Torres and Eto'o are both past their best and whilst I don't think they should panic buy in January, need to bring in new faces at some point. Get through to the Summer and reassess. I think (may be wrong) that Lukaku is only out on loan so the year at Everton will do him good and he could come back ready for next year.

If I were him I'd be getting rid of Eto'o, Torres, Ba and brining in a world class striker.

In terms of January for them, I'd be bringing in a promising centre back to learn under Terry / Cahill ready to fill Terry's shoes next year when he shuffles off into a cushy coaching job.

 

[Pin-seeker]

Letting Lukaku go out on loan was a weird one,Lukaku probably said he needed guarantees that he'd get game time,with it been a World Cup year.
The Mata deal was a no brainer. £37m for a player thats warming the bench. He is a quality player,but obviously didn't fit into Jose's plans.

 

[Fader]

I certainly do think Mourinho thinks he is far to clever.

Selling a player of Mata quality to a rival and believing he doesn't weaken his own side and strengthen Utd is bizarre. They may not be rivalling them this season but they will next term. Etoo is a strange one as well does he really give them more options than they had? I don't think so at all. Torres must be the owners love child as he has more chances than most other average players.

Too early to judge as he needs another year to develop the squad but I can't see what he has against Lukaku either especially as he is so similar to Drogba the player Mourinho built his first Chelsea dynasty around.

I get the impression that he doesn't like teams having star players that get a better following than him, look at how he royally dropped Casillas having done nothing wrong other than being Madrids prodigal son meaning more column inches than the manager, now the same with Mata upon hid return to Chelsea.

 

[Blue in Munich]

I know you can't judge him overall until he's had 2 seasons under his belt, to build a team his own way, but is he trying to be too clever?

Lukaku going with his consent.
Another manager trying, and so far failing to get Torres back to pre-Chelsea form.
Keeping Ba and trying to get him back to pre-Chelsea form.
Getting in Eto, despite his age.
Selling Mata, to a club who even if only next season will still be a major rival,despite being Chelsea's best player over the previous 2 seasons.
Coming in and maybe making a point of "taking on" the clubs best player over the last two years, as if to say, that means nothing to me - prove yourself again.

Mourinho has got more decisions right than wrong over the last 10 years, and each of the above points has its own merits, or not. But, is he trying to upset the apple cart too much, and do Chelsea fans, and others, think the same?

Well, he saw Lukaku play in a few games and decided to let him go, I can only assume that either he didn't consider him yet up to a standard that he could put total faith in him or he felt that in the long term Lukaku would develop better from playing regularly in another team than sporadically in his own.

Torres isn't back to his pre-Chelsea form, but nor is he playing his pre-Chelsea game so in some respects not a valid comparison. I'm not unhappy with Torres contributions to the team based on the matches I've been watching as opposed to the edited "highlights" from Match of the Day.

Keeping Ba was purely a tactical masterstroke to derail Arsenal, apparently.

Eto'o has been a known quantity to him for ages and is starting to repay his faith in him. He's only on a one year contract, I'm guessing that he will be released on Lukaku's return or retained short term if one of the other two leave.

Mata has had the opportunity to establish himself but failed to do so. My opinion is that he isn't prepared to roll his sleeves up and get stuck in, and that he is relatively slow; reminds me very much of Pat Nevin, all the skill in the world and stuff all pace. If Mata is not to be played, then he actually weakens our squad, selling him frees up a space for a player the manager will use.

At the moment, he's got a team with "duff forwards" and a midfield "weakened by not playing Mata" 2 points off the top of the league, so at the moment I'd say he isn't trying to be too clever.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

With regards to Lukaku I think his 1 goal in the last 9 has justified his decision to let him go and I wouldn't be surprised if they listened to offers for him come the summer.

I think Mata is a great player and I'd rather have him than Willian in my side.

Watching Torres in that side is embarrassing, and I doubt we''ll ever see him in the form he was in at Liverpool.

I think Mourinho will be tested come the summer when he needs to rebuild his defence.
Cole and Terry will need to be replaced as a minimum.

 

[In_The_Rough]

Think he will sort the defence out easy enough. Luke Shaw will be targeted to replace Cole even though UTD are rumoured to be interested. I am sure he will have some centre backs lined up. I would be more concerned with what is going to happen up front. Mata never fitted in from day one so it was no surprise that he was cleared out but yes like you I think Mata is a smashing player and will be an asset for UTD over the years.

 

[anotherdouble]

Even though I am an ardent Chelsea fan I am a utterly believe Mourinho does things to boost the Mourinho image.
He sold Mata because Mata can't make Jose any better. Chelsea's player of the year for last two years only one way to go is loss of form. If it then works out and Chelsea win league or champions league then Mourinho was right. He keeps Torres and if he becomes what he used to be then Mourinho did what nobody else could do. He can't lose if Torres doesn't recapture his old form.

 

[Papas1982]

Maureen is trying to do it his way - like he always has

He is a good manager who has done very well - I think at first his greatest gift was picking the right clubs and build from there

At Porto he had the strongest club in the league and built on that with an impressive CL win

That allowed him to take his pick of clubs

Liverpool and Chelsea wanted him but it was an obvious choice to go to Chelsea - Raneri had already bought a great deal and Maureen had the resources to pick who he wanted and he did

Things then went a bit sour for him and he left as Chelsea were struggling ( relatively to previous years )

He then picked a team that had won the Italian League 3 or 4 times in a row - spent more money after the crazy Ibrahimovic and won another CL - great win if not horrific tactics

After that it was obvious he would go to the biggest club in the world - his success earned him that

I think it was 3 or 4 seasons there trying to break the Barce domination and win another CL - I think he ended up with one title so I would say especially after all the money that was spent it was prob his least successful job

Now going back to Chelsea is a brave move because there is another big player in town now - - City

I think he did want the ManUtd job because his ego would have loved to take over from Taggert

But going to Chelsea with the riches still available gives him a chance to win the prem when it's even stronger than it was

He is making some strange choices - Etoo, Lukaku , Mata

All choices that I think weaken his squad

Willian is a decent player but he isn't in Matas class - Oscar is a decent player but again not in Matas class

A forward player like Lukaku supported by Hazard , Oscar and Mata would have ripped through teams

Is his ego trying to prove that he can get Torres firing again - I would say yes

Etoo I believe he has gone to a known trusted accomplice

The Mata sale - I have my own theory on that but it was clear from day one Maureen didnt want him - I believe it could be down to the players relationship to the previous manager

The last two season Di Matteo and Rafa have delivered the CL and the Europa Lge with Mata at the heart of it -

If Chelsea win nothing then Maureen could find himself being questioned and under pressure quickly

To be fair he earned his spot at Porto with earlier league success at a considerably smaller club.

I think Mata doesn't suit his style so he has moved him on. £37m for an unwanted asset is great business.

Id suggest that Oscar is proving to be just as good as Mata has been for last few years and puts much more of a shift in.

Lukaku whilst looking impressive in his barrage style attack hasn't covered himself with his finishing yet. I don't think he'd have too many more at Chelsea than Everton.

I sometimes me think that Mourinho disliked (by some) personality makes people forget how good his achievements are. His title winning Madrid team broke records and the dominance if a team argued as the best club side ever. As to taking a cushy inter job, look how Rafa got on with that squad once he left. Taking over a team at the to has its own pressure. I've not heard anybidy make out that Guardiola took the easy job when taking over at Bayern.

I agree Mourinho cares about his image, but he takes care of his image by being successful, ask any of the players he's managed if they would rather of had a different manager, I expect few would prefer someone else.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Well, he saw Lukaku play in a few games and decided to let him go, I can only assume that either he didn't consider him yet up to a standard that he could put total faith in him or he felt that in the long term Lukaku would develop better from playing regularly in another team than sporadically in his own.

Torres isn't back to his pre-Chelsea form, but nor is he playing his pre-Chelsea game so in some respects not a valid comparison. I'm not unhappy with Torres contributions to the team based on the matches I've been watching as opposed to the edited "highlights" from Match of the Day.

Keeping Ba was purely a tactical masterstroke to derail Arsenal, apparently.

Eto'o has been a known quantity to him for ages and is starting to repay his faith in him. He's only on a one year contract, I'm guessing that he will be released on Lukaku's return or retained short term if one of the other two leave.

Mata has had the opportunity to establish himself but failed to do so. My opinion is that he isn't prepared to roll his sleeves up and get stuck in, and that he is relatively slow; reminds me very much of Pat Nevin, all the skill in the world and stuff all pace. If Mata is not to be played, then he actually weakens our squad, selling him frees up a space for a player the manager will use.

At the moment, he's got a team with "duff forwards" and a midfield "weakened by not playing Mata" 2 points off the top of the league, so at the moment I'd say he isn't trying to be too clever.

Some fair points. As I said all the decisions I listed are all contentious, and there are pros and cons on all of them.

I think the Mata one could be the biggest rick though, on two fronts. I think Chelsea will still do well without Mata, and with using the money wisely, he can possibly even improve the team overall.

However, Man U are going through a torrid time and this is a beacon of light to them IMHO. It may have the "Ozil" effect on them.

If they had not made one marquee signing this window, and with a few more poor results, the whole Moyes out/give him time thing would have split the club and the fans for the remainder of the season and even further if they dont get CL. chelsea could have seen off a major rival for potentially the next 2-3 seasons, whilst they try to rebuild.

Now they could get VP and Rooney back soon, allied to Mata, they could finish strongly, especially with a few winnable game coming up. Rooney then also signs a contract, as Man u are showing a new ambition, and then does not potentially go to Chelseas for buttons in the summer. If Man U still got CL, I think a lot of the pressure would at least ease until next season.

Both of the above are only possible scenarios. I just think that if Chelsea had the "Aussie" attitude of stamp on a rivals neck when they are down, it may come back to haunt them. Ask England cricket team who should have done the same to the Aussies after the summer retaining of the ashes. Instead of winning 4 or even 5-0, then also winning the one dayers, they let the aussies re-group, instead of whacking them, which would have resulted in a potential manger change, captain change, players etc, etc. for them, 4 months later it is England who are now going through all that.

Ok, Chelsea got £37m for a now squad player, but I'm sure they could have touted him around Europe for £25-30m and someone would have paid it. That extra £12M gained could cost them a lot more over the coming years, trying to stay ahead of Man U, IMHO.

 

[Pin-seeker]

Some fair points. As I said all the decisions I listed are all contentious, and there are pros and cons on all of them.

I think the Mata one could be the biggest rick though, on two fronts. I think Chelsea will still do well without Mata, and with using the money wisely, he can possibly even improve the team overall.

However, Man U are going through a torrid time and this is a beacon of light to them IMHO. It may have the "Ozil" effect on them.

If they had not made one marquee signing this window, and with a few more poor results, the whole Moyes out/give him time thing would have split the club and the fans for the remainder of the season and even further if they dont get CL. chelsea could have seen off a major rival for potentially the next 2-3 seasons, whilst they try to rebuild.

Now they could get VP and Rooney back soon, allied to Mata, they could finish strongly, especially with a few winnable game coming up. Rooney then also signs a contract, as Man u are showing a new ambition, and then does not potentially go to Chelseas for buttons in the summer. If Man U still got CL, I think a lot of the pressure would at least ease until next season.

Both of the above are only possible scenarios. I just think that if Chelsea had the "Aussie" attitude of stamp on a rivals neck when they are down, it may come back to haunt them. Ask England cricket team who should have done the same to the Aussies after the summer retaining of the ashes. Instead of winning 4 or even 5-0, then also winning the one dayers, they let the aussies re-group, instead of whacking them, which would have resulted in a potential manger change, captain change, players etc, etc.....

Ok, Chelsea got £37m for a now squad player, but I'm sure they could have touted him around Europe for £25-30m and someone would have paid it. That extra £12M gained could cost them a lot more over the coming years, trying to stay ahead of Man U, IMHO.

Some very good points here. Utd have looked average at best recently. But if you put Rooney RVP & Mata into a average side then it's going to be a hell of a lot better.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Some very good points here. Utd have looked average at best recently. But if you put Rooney RVP & Mata into a average side then it's going to be a hell of a lot better.

With Cleverley supplying the bullets, as well......

 

[Pin-seeker]

With Cleverley supplying the bullets, as well......

How could I forget about that little midfield magician,throw in Fellaini & they look a shoe in for the CL.
I'd have liked to see Chelsea drag the Mata deal out until the last minute then sell him for £5m less to a Spanish side.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Some fair points. As I said all the decisions I listed are all contentious, and there are pros and cons on all of them.

I think the Mata one could be the biggest rick though, on two fronts. I think Chelsea will still do well without Mata, and with using the money wisely, he can possibly even improve the team overall.

However, Man U are going through a torrid time and this is a beacon of light to them IMHO. It may have the "Ozil" effect on them.

If they had not made one marquee signing this window, and with a few more poor results, the whole Moyes out/give him time thing would have split the club and the fans for the remainder of the season and even further if they dont get CL. chelsea could have seen off a major rival for potentially the next 2-3 seasons, whilst they try to rebuild.

Now they could get VP and Rooney back soon, allied to Mata, they could finish strongly, especially with a few winnable game coming up. Rooney then also signs a contract, as Man u are showing a new ambition, and then does not potentially go to Chelseas for buttons in the summer. If Man U still got CL, I think a lot of the pressure would at least ease until next season.

Both of the above are only possible scenarios. I just think that if Chelsea had the "Aussie" attitude of stamp on a rivals neck when they are down, it may come back to haunt them. Ask England cricket team who should have done the same to the Aussies after the summer retaining of the ashes. Instead of winning 4 or even 5-0, then also winning the one dayers, they let the aussies re-group, instead of whacking them, which would have resulted in a potential manger change, captain change, players etc, etc. for them, 4 months later it is England who are now going through all that.

Ok, Chelsea got £37m for a now squad player, but I'm sure they could have touted him around Europe for £25-30m and someone would have paid it. That extra £12M gained could cost them a lot more over the coming years, trying to stay ahead of Man U, IMHO.

UTD are only 6 points from 4th - well within range

Wouldn't surprise me to see this signing spark their season and them getting 4th

 

[guest100718]

UTD are only 6 points from 4th - well within range

Wouldn't surprise me to see this signing spark their season and them getting 4th

where does that leave LFC? They have no chance of 3rd.

 

[NWJocko]

With Cleverley supplying the bullets, as well......

You see the tweet going round with Mata praising Cleverley as the "complete midfielder"....!!? :clap:

 

[chrisd]

Lukaku was pretty woeful against us (palace) some weeks ago. I can't see him replace Eto'o. Is it me, I just thought the ITV panel went overboard praising Chelsea today when I thought their play to be pretty sloppy at times, the certainly don't pass the ball anywhere near as good as Arsenal. Some spectacular individuals though!

 

[Liverbirdie]

where does that leave LFC? They have no chance of 3rd.

Probably not, especially if no new signings, and the injuries starting to stack up.

Did anyone say we would finish 3rd? Play nice now Paddy, and anyway I'm bored talking about us, this was about Mourinho/Chelsea and has slightly strayed to Man U.

 

[guest100718]

Probably not, especially if no new signings, and the injuries starting to stack up.

Did anyone say we would finish 3rd? Play nice now Paddy, and anyway I'm bored talking about us, this was about Mourinho/Chelsea and has slightly strayed to Man U.

No it was another scouse die hard who had you down for 3rd. I think its a straight fight for 4th between , Spurs, LFC, mancs and everton are still keeping up the pace.

As for Mourihno there is talk in spain that he doesnt like Mata becasue he's spanish and friends with some of the players who were making his like tough at real.