Is Golf now too expensive???

[Deleted member 15717]

I meant green fees, not membership fees.This is what I posted in the annual fees thread after SILH quoted that annual fees at Filton GC in 1984 were £365 “Interesting on your memory of costs nearly 40 years ago. They have therefore just about trebled in this period (£1150 now) - I wonder what green fees at top courses were 39 years ago - I know I could play TOC for £36 in the late 90s - the New and Jubilee were £20 - so about an 8 fold increase in 25 years. I remember Ferndown being £40 in the mid 2000s to £160 now so that is a four fold increase in under 20 years, Porthcawl was a bit cheaper now £170.”

Have they though? Using your example of the membership costing £365, and whacking it into the Bank of England calculator….in todays money it is the equivalent of £1090

 

[Deleted member 29109]

I meant green fees, not membership fees.This is what I posted in the annual fees thread after SILH quoted that annual fees at Filton GC in 1984 were £365 “Interesting on your memory of costs nearly 40 years ago. They have therefore just about trebled in this period (£1150 now) - I wonder what green fees at top courses were 39 years ago - I know I could play TOC for £36 in the late 90s - the New and Jubilee were £20 - so about an 8 fold increase in 25 years. I remember Ferndown being £40 in the mid 2000s to £160 now so that is a four fold increase in under 20 years, Porthcawl was a bit cheaper now £170.”

What were people earning back then? Without looking I would guess the average weekly wage was around £175. It’s now just over £600. So around the same increase.

Was the old course really £36 or was that a special rate? I do think it’s gone up more recently as it’s been marketed as somewhere more special than it actually is.

 

[Swango1980]

Wow! Must have been seriously lovely houses, if that was more than 50 years ago.
The 1970s saw average house prices more than quadruple in those ten years from about £4,000 in 1970 to near £20,000 at the end of the decade.

Very nice houses indeed. Thankfully, growing up as a kid, I spent a good amount of time at them (round corner from each other), so at least I benefited to some extent I suppose.

A house for £4,000, I guess it is true sometimes when they say the good old days. Even in today's money, that's about £50,000. Decent.

I bet annual golf club membership at Wentworth was about £50

 

[clubchamp98]

I paid £18000 for mine in late 70s it’s £280,000now.
no wonder young people are struggling to get on the ladder.

 

[Swango1980]

I paid £18000 for mine in late 70s it’s £28000 now.
no wonder young people are struggling to get on the ladder.

£28,000? Do you live in a shed?

I assume you left out a zero

 

[clubchamp98]

£28,000? Do you live in a shed?

I assume you left out a zero

It’s a very nice shed though has a fire and eleccy.

 

[D-S]

Have they though? Using your example of the membership costing £365, and whacking it into the Bank of England calculator….in todays money it is the equivalent of £1090

Exactly my point, over 40 years membership fees have kept pace with inflation but green fees at the courses I mention have massively outstripped inflation. Green fees at lower ranked normal clubs have kept pace with or under performed inflation over the same period.

 

[D-S]

What were people earning back then? Without looking I would guess the average weekly wage was around £175. It’s now just over £600. So around the same increase.

Was the old course really £36 or was that a special rate? I do think it’s gone up more recently as it’s been marketed as somewhere more special than it actually is.

If you read the post is says that membership fees have increased three fold over 40 years, so about right but the green fees at the courses mentioned have increased four fold over 20 years.
The £36 green fee at the Old Course was not a special rate , it was through the ballot and the New and Jubilee were the price on the day. Again just over 20 years ago, not 40 as the membership increase.

 

[Deleted member 15717]

Exactly my point, over 40 years membership fees have kept pace with inflation but green fees at the courses I mention have massively outstripped inflation. Green fees at lower ranked normal clubs have kept pace with or under performed inflation over the same period.

For sure. I don’t have any issue with clubs charging what they charge. People will pay it, or they won’t.
Clubs will need to balance having visitors and ensuring members have plenty of tee times. Raising the price may allow them to take limited visitors, but charging more for them.

There’s no point in comparing green fees from 25 years ago as much has changed in agronomy, challenges faced etc.

 

[D-S]

For sure. I don’t have any issue with clubs charging what they charge. People will pay it, or they won’t.
Clubs will need to balance having visitors and ensuring members have plenty of tee times. Raising the price may allow them to take limited visitors, but charging more for them.

There’s no point in comparing green fees from 25 years ago as much has changed in agronomy, challenges faced etc.

That doesn’t explain the discrepancy in green fee inflation between clubs at the higher and lower end of the charging rates.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

That doesn’t explain the discrepancy in green fee inflation between clubs at the higher and lower end of the charging rates.

Maybe there are now more people who are able and willing to spend more to play top courses?

 

[Voyager EMH]

Very nice houses indeed. Thankfully, growing up as a kid, I spent a good amount of time at them (round corner from each other), so at least I benefited to some extent I suppose.

A house for £4,000, I guess it is true sometimes when they say the good old days. Even in today's money, that's about £50,000. Decent.

I bet annual golf club membership at Wentworth was about £50

£34,500 for me and Mrs V in 1987 for the house we continue to live in.
But "the good old days" came shortly after when mortgage rates rocketed, but we just got by with two full-time wages and no kids.
Others were not so fortunate. Devastating to have your house repossessed and sold for far less than you paid, because house prices slumped during the chaos.

 

[Swango1980]

That doesn’t explain the discrepancy in green fee inflation between clubs at the higher and lower end of the charging rates.

Maybe the Tiger effect and significant improvements to broadcasting has vastly multiplied the number of people who play golf (and general population growth)? Therefore, there are more people about willing to pay higher green fees? Only so many players a club can get on a course, so they probably can't just benefit by having more visitors, so instead they put up fees?

Especially the prestigious courses. I know a lot of new courses came along in lady 20 or so years, and many of those could help cater for those who generally don't pay as much? Compete for visitors and members by having lower prices?

 

[Deleted member 15717]

That doesn’t explain the discrepancy in green fee inflation between clubs at the higher and lower end of the charging rates.

Prices of Ferraris will go up more than the price of a Dacia.

Better courses can charge more money to play them. If there is a market, they can charge it.

 

[D-S]

Prices of Ferraris will go up more than the price of a Dacia.

Better courses can charge more money to play them. If there is a market, they can charge it.

Well of course the law of supply and demand applies and obviously they can charge what they like in a free market. However, the question is “Is golf too expensive?” and my response is that due to skewed inflation rates (for a variety of reasons) many top course green fees are now too expensive for me. Thankfully I played more than my fair share of top courses when pricing was more closely aligned with ‘normal‘ green fees.

 

[Deleted member 15717]

Fair enough.

I think golf has probably been underselling for a long period of time, and it’s now roughly in line with where it should be.

 

[Voyager EMH]

Yesterday I saw a set of irons, very similar to ones I bought 18 months ago for £10, go for £108 on ebay.
That kind of inflation is sickening.

 

[need_my_wedge]

£34,500 for me and Mrs V in 1987 for the house we continue to live in.
But "the good old days" came shortly after when mortgage rates rocketed, but we just got by with two full-time wages and no kids.
Others were not so fortunate. Devastating to have your house repossessed and sold for far less than you paid, because house prices slumped during the chaos.

And after advising you that giving them the keys was the best option and all would be fine, they sell the house 30% less than the outstanding mortgage, and then come back after you for the difference.....

 

[IanM]

Yesterday I saw a set of irons, very similar to ones I bought 18 months ago for £10, go for £108 on ebay.
That kind of inflation is sickening.

You can't get lucky every week!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

£34,500 for me and Mrs V in 1987 for the house we continue to live in.
But "the good old days" came shortly after when mortgage rates rocketed, but we just got by with two full-time wages and no kids.
Others were not so fortunate. Devastating to have your house repossessed and sold for far less than you paid, because house prices slumped during the chaos.

I too bought my first property in 1987…small two bed flat in central Bristol. Cost me £35,000 which was almost exactly 3 x my salary (~£10.5k) plus 10%. Perfect for the single and newly qualified professional systems engineer. And I could afford my golf club membership quite easy back then - though when interest rates hit 15% things weren’t so straightforward (but I’d saved enough to cope).

It was last sold in 2017 for £270,000 and now estimated £325,000 - £397,000 (for a titchy 2 bed flat). What would the me of today have to earn and have saved to buy that little flat. Doubt I’d be able to afford to also join a golf club, never mind play an ‘open’ course.

For me it seems to be that it’s UK housing costs that have made so much unaffordable.