Is Golf now too expensive???

[evemccc]

[

Agree entirely, and would add a subtext re the Old Course of "just cos they can, does it mean they should?"

Arch supply-and-demand ideologues fail to see so much..
Namely that the world and interactions is not purely based on the primacy of who holds econ LEVERAGE at that particular time - they should be a level of morality involved

 

[Jacko_G]

Maybe the old course increased their green fees so much because the likes of Kingsbarns was charging so much more

A totally different business model.

 

[IanM]

A totally different business model.

Absolutely but doesn't stop them using it as a lever.

[


Arch supply-and-demand ideologues fail to see so much..
Namely that the world and interactions is not purely based on the primacy of who holds econ LEVERAGE at that particular time - they should be a level of morality involved

Yep! Entry level economics. "Goods of ostentation" demand and supply curves go out the window! Nice work if you can get it!

 

[evemccc]

The simplest two ways to play all the top courses cheaply are:

1) get a Plus 4 handicap and then enter all the elite amateur tournaments which are held at the top courses: Lytham Trophy, Birkdale Goblet, Sunningdale Foursomes etc

2) Join Muirfield…sure that with your new-found network you will have ‘friends of friends’ able to sign you on everywhere

Simple ?

 

[Swango1980]

Agree entirely, and would add a subtext re the Old Course of "just cos they can, does it mean they should?"

One thing I wonder is, if is was really cheap (again, subjective what that is), would it become very very difficult to actually ever get a round there?

Got me thinking about the London Marathon. A big event that has thousands of runners. However, unless you are an elite runner, or running for charity, it is very very difficult to actually get a spot. I think the entry fee is about £50. You could be someone who desperately wants to run it, but may never get the chance. Yet someone who isn't overly bothered, gets a spot (got a guy at work like that who got a spot, and he couldn't be bothered going in the end). Whereas, if the entry fee was, say, £200, then would it make it much easier for people to run it, that really really really want to run it?

I'm definitely not suggesting they will or should do that, and the whole charity element is a big driving force to get people to run the marathon.

But, going back to St Andrews, I've no idea how easy it is to get a tee time as a non-member? I'm guessing it is still very difficult, even with the very high green fee? So, if that was lowered, would it not just make it considerably more difficult to play? There would be a much bigger chance you'd have people playing that are not overly blown away by St Andrews, but just took a chance in applying for a round, got in, and are just having another round of golf. Whereas you get people that are desperate to play at the home of golf and all the magic they'd feel, would have happily invested more to get that chance, but simply couldn't because all the tee slots were booked up by others.

On another note, I assume members have dedicated periods in the week to play?

 

[IanM]

The simplest two ways to play all the top courses cheaply are:

1) get a Plus 4 handicap and then enter all the elite amateur tournaments which are held at the top courses: Lytham Trophy, Birkdale Goblet, Sunningdale Foursomes etc

2) Join Muirfield…sure that with your new-found network you will have ‘friends of friends’ able to sign you on everywhere

Simple ?

Awesome plan.... but I see a wee flaw in it!

I am awaiting for Paul to do the trip to the place he won the Amateur Championship. It'll be "sell a kidney" money, but I'll be there! (and therein lies the issue behind the whole thread.... )

 

[Swango1980]

On my golf bucket list is Ballybunnion old course. I’m 60 in 2 years time and me and the mrs ,plan touring Ireland again. I looked last night for Bally and it’s €300 , and in 2 years time god knows . I will probably pay it but it’s a lot of money to justify.

If $300 is a barrier to stopping you doing something on your bucket list, I hope climbing Everest is not on your bucket list as well

 

[louise_a]

A totally different business model.

I dont know about business models, all I see is a newish course a few miles from St Andrews changing £100 a round more than the most famous course in the world.

 

[patricks148]

I see that the St Andrews Links Trust have raised the green fee for The Old Course again this year.

£295

It was "only" £195 in 2021 before a staggering 40% rise to £270 in 2022.

I suppose this is going to be the norm as long as the pound is weak. Its a shame as it was always on the cheaper side compared to other open rota courses.
During my caddying rounds last year, it was surprising how few Americans actually a time one TOC. Usually the majority would.

 

[Skytot]

If $300 is a barrier to stopping you doing something on your bucket list, I hope climbing Everest is not on your bucket list as well

Why how much is it to climb Everest? ?

 

[Slab]

Why how much is it to climb Everest? ?

I dunno but I bet its going up!

 

[Swango1980]

Why how much is it to climb Everest? ?

Anywhere between $30,000 to £160,000

I think I'd prefer just to pay a green fee at St Andrews each weekend

 

[IanM]

Anywhere between $30,000 to £160,000

...in the cheap version the way down is very very quick!

 

[Val]

No. How expensive golf is, is determined by how much it costs if you want to play golf, not how much its possible to spend to play golf.

Golfers are rich. They are happy to hand over their money to buy branding. They have the money to concede to the brainwashing of the advertisers. Drivers is a funny one admittedly. They are all the same, but a lot a men (not women) keep parting with cash ('investing' they call it to hide the fact that it will yield them nothing other than soothe their consumerism) for a club in a different shade of grey, and convince themselves they like the sound a little better.

I've never read as much nonsense on this forum in years. Golfers are rich is a generalisation that should be held for around 5% of golfers IMO. Being rich is buying new irons, drivers etc without a care and not as the majority on this forum would do by saving for a length of time or looming for second hand options.

Congratulations on being rich

 

[rystaman]

It's a tough one. I'm in the Midlands and last year locally only really played some short MyTimeActive courses which were fine for me and cheap as chips (£20 weekend, £15 weekday after work chasing the sunset). To join a local club I'm looking at £1000 membership (under 30) and £500 joining fee and I just can't justify it.

I didn't get to play this many rounds last year but at around 45-ish rounds costing £800 at the muni, I can't really justify the extra £700. Unless anyone on here can sell me on actually joining a club rather than paying as I go?

 

[evemccc]

One benefit of joining a club, and frankly this may not appeal to you nor be worth it, is that if you play the Sunday comps, you’ll soon know the vast majority of other players - at least by sight or on an acquaintance level

You’ll be playing essentially with only the people in the Sunday comps…no-one else will be on the course…in the bar, on the course, on the putting green or car park etc. It’ll feel like you’re a member of a ‘club’ - and it’s good for people’s sense of ‘self’ and community, to feel like they know the people around them. Quite important in our increasingly atomised, balkanised world..

Again this may not have any value to you. I fully intended to be a ‘car-park’ golfer, and was attracted to the course and not the club —- but I can see the value in getting involved with the club - as well as using the course

 

[Deleted member 25575]

It's a tough one. I'm in the Midlands and last year locally only really played some short MyTimeActive courses which were fine for me and cheap as chips (£20 weekend, £15 weekday after work chasing the sunset). To join a local club I'm looking at £1000 membership (under 30) and £500 joining fee and I just can't justify it.

I didn't get to play this many rounds last year but at around 45-ish rounds costing £800 at the muni, I can't really justify the extra £700. Unless anyone on here can sell me on actually joining a club rather than paying as I go?

One of the things that has always appealed to me is the ability to walk off the course if the weather turns rubbish. I know that may sound odd, but whenever I’d actually paid cash for a round I always felt compelled to complete it come what may. Being a member of a club enables me to mentally to walk if it starts hammering down.
In all honesty it’s happened probably a handful of times in the last 5 years, but I like that option.
Probably more pertinent is the ability to just play a few holes after work or sometimes working from home I can get out for 4 at lunch or whatever, or if we have a family day out and get home and there’s 2 hours light left I can quickly get 9 in. Stuff like that I’d not do if I had to pay every time and that is something I do quite a lot through the year
The other thing I try to so is pay my subs for the year up front, yes it’s sore in Jan when I have to shell out the thick end of a grand, but after that it’s free golf for the rest of the year.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Absolutely but doesn't stop them using it as a lever.



Yep! Entry level economics. "Goods of ostentation" demand and supply curves go out the window! Nice work if you can get it!

Fortunately I have very little, if any, interest in purchasing goods of ostentation.

Doesn‘t stop me being frustrated when something I might want to buy is, or even more frustratingly becomes, such. And in that category sit the great golf courses of Scotland (principally) which my golfing egalitarian instinct tells me should be within reasonable reach of most. Which of course they, nowadays more than in the past, simply are not.

 

[Swango1980]

I've never read as much nonsense on this forum in years. Golfers are rich is a generalisation that should be held for around 5% of golfers IMO. Being rich is buying new irons, drivers etc without a care and not as the majority on this forum would do by saving for a length of time or looming for second hand options.

Congratulations on being rich

Agreed. Certainly in this country. My last club had various membership types, but by far most common was annual subs of £200 and the £6 per round at weekend, £4 during week.

I'd say a lot of members at the club are definitely not "rich", but golf was more than affordable for them. I'm sure if you look at the top clubs in some counties, clubs like Wentworth, then undoubtedly members will be very wealthy. But, I don't see golf being a sport for the rich, certainly in the UK.

Perhaps it is a different story elsewhere in the world, where countries have limited clubs. Not only are they only accessible to the rich of those countries, maybe most of us on regular salaries in UK would struggle to find them affordable? Also not sure how affordable golf was 30, 50, 70 years ago in the UK to the average person? Perhaps it was more a rich persons game then?

 

[Voyager EMH]

No. How expensive golf is, is determined by how much it costs if you want to play golf, not how much its possible to spend to play golf.

Golfers are rich. They are happy to hand over their money to buy branding. They have the money to concede to the brainwashing of the advertisers. Drivers is a funny one admittedly. They are all the same, but a lot a men (not women) keep parting with cash ('investing' they call it to hide the fact that it will yield them nothing other than soothe their consumerism) for a club in a different shade of grey, and convince themselves they like the sound a little better.

Great post. And well done for getting in first after OP.
It didn't take me long after joining the forum to "get" your style.
Deliberately provocative, extreme sceptic, tongue in cheek - is how I would sum it up.
Anyway, keep it up, because I like to read the responses when people take you far too literally.
I rarely give you a "like" as I doubt that is what you are after. But sometimes you me me chuckle a bit.
There is a place for people with your style and I hope this continues to be such a place.