Ireland

[Basher]

What the hell's gone wrong in Ireland?

 

[madandra]

Scottish referees are to blame.

 

[colint]

They joined the Euro

 

[Ethan]

The Euro was not the cause. Unfettered lending on property driving an unsustainable boom in property prices was the main problem.

 

[StuartD]

Scottish referees are to blame.

 

[znuffzz]

yes as i mentioned in another thread it is reassuring to know that all the cuts intended to reduce the UK deficit are going to bail out the irish....hurray for politics

 

[colint]

The Euro was not the cause. Unfettered lending on property driving an unsustainable boom in property prices was the main problem.

I agree it was the property situation that led to the mess, but being in the Euro meant the government could do nothing to take the heat out of the economy. The low interest rates set by the European Central Bank encouraged too many people to gamble on the property market, it was totally out of control. They needed to raise interest rates to cool the property market and get some money back in the banks but witout control of their interest rates they were powerless to do anything.

Obviously the banks got greedy (hardly a suprise) and lent way too much, and the government just kept raking in the property taxes. There are other factors involved, but things would never have got this bad without the Euro. They're now going to have measures forced on them as conditions of the bailout which are going to be hugely painful. France and Germany will bully Ireland into increasing their corporation tax rates which will discourage new business to locate in Ireland just when they need investment more than ever. A cynic would say this is as much about trying to make Ireland look a less attractive proposition for investment compared to France and Germany, as it is to raise revenue short term.

The Irish economy was booming before the property boom, without the Euro it probably still would be

 

[colint]

yes as i mentioned in another thread it is reassuring to know that all the cuts intended to reduce the UK deficit are going to bail out the irish....hurray for politics

Part of it's self interest though, Irish banks owe a fortune to British banks already. If the Irish banks go pop so do the loans and our economy isn't strong enough to take another hit. The money going to Ireland is a loan, and will be repaid with interest so it shouldn't cost the UK tax payers a penny

 

[Yerman]

The Euro was not the cause. Unfettered lending on property driving an unsustainable boom in property prices was the main problem.

I agree it was the property situation that led to the mess, but being in the Euro meant the government could do nothing to take the heat out of the economy. The low interest rates set by the European Central Bank encouraged too many people to gamble on the property market, it was totally out of control. They needed to raise interest rates to cool the property market and get some money back in the banks but witout control of their interest rates they were powerless to do anything.

Obviously the banks got greedy (hardly a suprise) and lent way too much, and the government just kept raking in the property taxes. There are other factors involved, but things would never have got this bad without the Euro. They're now going to have measures forced on them as conditions of the bailout which are going to be hugely painful. France and Germany will bully Ireland into increasing their corporation tax rates which will discourage new business to locate in Ireland just when they need investment more than ever. A cynic would say this is as much about trying to make Ireland look a less attractive proposition for investment compared to France and Germany, as it is to raise revenue short term.

The Irish economy was booming before the property boom, without the Euro it probably still would be

I preferred the Scottish ref explanation

 

[Yerman]

Do you think Ballybunion will now charge more or less?

 

[Farneyman]

The Euro was not the cause. Unfettered lending on property driving an unsustainable boom in property prices was the main problem.

I agree it was the property situation that led to the mess, but being in the Euro meant the government could do nothing to take the heat out of the economy. The low interest rates set by the European Central Bank encouraged too many people to gamble on the property market, it was totally out of control. They needed to raise interest rates to cool the property market and get some money back in the banks but witout control of their interest rates they were powerless to do anything.

Obviously the banks got greedy (hardly a suprise) and leant way too much, and the government just kept raking in the property taxes. There are other factors involved, but things would never have got this bad without the Euro. They're now going to have measures forced on them as conditions of the bailout which are going to be hugely painful. France and Germany will bully Ireland into increasing their corporation tax rates which will discourage new business to locate in Ireland just when they need investment more than ever. A cynic would say this is as much about trying to make Ireland look a less attractive proposition for investment compared to France and Germany, as it is to raise revenue short term.

The Irish economy was booming before the property boom, without the Euro is probably still would be

Agree that the euro is not the problem but the manner in which banks lent money. Simple as that.

I know a lot of people back home who built large houses on borrowed money and now the economy is in trouble, so too will they with repayments. Unfortunately I foresee a lot of lovely houses available in Ireland that were dream homes for some people for only a few short years. That to me is the sad part.

With time, Ireland will recover and continue to rear some of the worlds "smartest people"

 

[viscount17]

yes as i mentioned in another thread it is reassuring to know that all the cuts intended to reduce the UK deficit are going to bail out the irish....hurray for politics

Part of it's self interest though, Irish banks owe a fortune to British banks already. If the Irish banks go pop so do the loans and our economy isn't strong enough to take another hit. The money going to Ireland is a loan, and will be repaid with interest so it shouldn't cost the UK tax payers a penny

maybe, but the idea of us taking all the cuts was to cut down the interest we pay. if all we do is give (OK lend) it to another lame duck how are we any better off? what we 'save' isn't going to cut down down our debt.

 

[Leftie]

We borrow the money at 1.5% interest and loan it out at 5% interest with little colateral.

Just what banks have been doing for many, many years and look where that got them

 

[AuburnWarrior]

We borrow the money at 1.5% interest and loan it out at 5% interest with little colateral.

Just what banks have been doing for many, many years and look where that got them

Very rich??

 

[Leftie]

The bankers, definitely.

As for the banks, their shareholders - a different story maybe.

Do you ever "read" the Alex cartoons in the DT? Says it all

 

[19th]

The Euro - Ireland cannot, as the UK did with the pound, print masses of Euros so that the Euro 'in your pocket' is worth much less.

Interest Rates - We live in a global market now and going out of step with the rest of the lending houses is very difficult.

Banks - They will take every advantage to make money and when things go pear shaped deny any liability.

Recovery - Too much too soon has been the problem and it sounds as if they are about to go down the same road again. Unemployment can not solve the problem and driving people onto the scrapheap means less income via tax and more costs to accommodate the financial living needs of the unemployed from an ever decreasing workforce.

The recovery must be made over the longest time possible, say 7 years and this will allow all to adjust, confidence to be retained and growth to return.

The acceptance of the pay out will mean of course that this long term plan will not be allowed.

Lesson for the UK? Watch out for the quick recovery as it can, as we can see, cause a double dip!

 

[znuffzz]

yes as i mentioned in another thread it is reassuring to know that all the cuts intended to reduce the UK deficit are going to bail out the irish....hurray for politics

Part of it's self interest though, Irish banks owe a fortune to British banks already. If the Irish banks go pop so do the loans and our economy isn't strong enough to take another hit. The money going to Ireland is a loan, and will be repaid with interest so it shouldn't cost the UK tax payers a penny

maybe, but the idea of us taking all the cuts was to cut down the interest we pay. if all we do is give (OK lend) it to another lame duck how are we any better off? what we 'save' isn't going to cut down down our debt.

beat me to it.

plus the thing with a loan is it has to be repaid, and frankly there is [****] all chance of that imho

 

[Hendy]

Cheap golf for all lol.......


Played here http://www.donegalgolfclub.ie/ last friday for 25 euro normaly about 50 euro and thats down from last year i think..

played here http://www.ballyliffingolfclub.com/ on the sunday as well for 30 euro..

But really the south of ireland has been living in a bubble for years.. the mate got a dump in dublin for 80,000 euro and sold it two years later for 250,000 spend about 10,000 euro on it..

How long was mark ups like that going to happen..

example of what its like now
http://www.propertynews.com/brochure.php...&sort=added

16 brand new apartments for 350,000 euro

 

[brendy]

18.5k sterling for an apartment just over the border, that is unreal! not a million miles from lough erne etc either!