Injury on an icy course

[Colin2324]

Take that as a no then - until you get the cheque in your hand. Clearly you don't think you did anything wrong. Walking 150 yards on an already injured leg, mentioning it on a public forum (someone somewhere will know of you and the incident) plus all the other discrepancies that seem to have come out from the OP

you can take it however you please but I am not about to go into detail about how much, if any,liability i would be prepared to accept. that's none of your business and certainly not an aspect I would b discussing on a public forum. The fact is that no one has ever discussed my liability versus theres. It may or may not be a discussion I would be prepared to be party to, but whilst they continue to take the matter down the legal route I don't have that option. Someone somewhere can expose the identity of the club and myself if they wish. It isn't my wish nor my intention and it doesn't make a blind bit of difference to the facts and the liability anyway and I would ask for it to be removed if someone did expose identity details. If you could highlight the discrepancies that have come out from me, I'd be pleased to hear them ?

 

[jpenno]

He 'indicated' it was safe in response to a question he was asked. He said 'yes, it's okay, it's playable' There isn't any contradiction there.

There is a considerable difference to the course being playable and answering a question about it being safe and clear from ice.

All Golf courses are playable if YOU exercise reasonable care.

You havent answered my previous questions about what time you arrived at the club, then teed off and what time you got to the 10th tee. there could have been a substantial drop in temperature during those 2 hours

I note you wouldnt fund the costs of the claim yourself as you must think its too risky, I really hope you lose and that your ATE insurance wont cover you.

The accident was caused by you failing to take appropriate care yet you want someone else to take the blame.

 

[Hacker Khan]

you can take it however you please but I am not about to go into detail about how much, if any,liability i would be prepared to accept. that's none of your business and certainly not an aspect I would b discussing on a public forum. The fact is that no one has ever discussed my liability versus theres. It may or may not be a discussion I would be prepared to be party to, but whilst they continue to take the matter down the legal route I don't have that option. Someone somewhere can expose the identity of the club and myself if they wish. It isn't my wish nor my intention and it doesn't make a blind bit of difference to the facts and the liability anyway and I would ask for it to be removed if someone did expose identity details. If you could highlight the discrepancies that have come out from me, I'd be pleased to hear them ?

Moral of the story is don't post anything on here that you intend to keep vaguely confidential. Someone grassed me up to a company as I posted that I got some free shoes from them by mistake once,, and people got very upset. But in another thread letting children die in Africa is OK. You would not believe the piousness on display sometimes. But it takes different strokes.....

Anyway, my take is you pays your price and takes your chances when playing golf in cold conditions. And if you come to some harm through no direct negligence (as in someone has not directly caused you some harm by being in the same vicinity of you when it happened) of someone then your bad.

 

[jpenno]

you can take it however you please but I am not about to go into detail about how much, if any,liability i would be prepared to accept. that's none of your business and certainly not an aspect I would b discussing on a public forum. The fact is that no one has ever discussed my liability versus theres. It may or may not be a discussion I would be prepared to be party to, but whilst they continue to take the matter down the legal route I don't have that option. Someone somewhere can expose the identity of the club and myself if they wish. It isn't my wish nor my intention and it doesn't make a blind bit of difference to the facts and the liability anyway and I would ask for it to be removed if someone did expose identity details. If you could highlight the discrepancies that have come out from me, I'd be pleased to hear them ?

You are missing the Point - They are not taking it down the legal route - You are.

You could have dropped this by accepting it was your fault

 

[bluetoon]

I have 3 pairs of golf shoes. None of them have the old style metal spikes. None of them have the modern dimple soles. They have varying types of medium to hard cleats but I can't remember now which ones I was wearing. Neither of them would be effective on solid ice but all of them would have offered a degree of stability and safety in routine frost.

I'm going out on a limb here, but i would suggest that any good solicitor would run a merry dance round the fact that you were wearing plastic cleated shoes in sub zero conditions.

Regardless of the fact that 99% of the golfing community wear them and golf courses favour them because they cause less damage to the greens.

Maybe, this highlights the need for the golfing community at large to return to metal spikes when playing winter golf in the UK. It seems a more sensible and appropriate footwear giving the conditions you describe.

 

[MadAdey]

Even though I am against this compo claim. At the end of the day he slipped on the course and broke his ankle. I am guessing that if it is out of plaster and he has use of it again he is still suffering with it. So come on people lay off him a bit. He came on here to ask for peoples opinions on him taking legal action against them and he is now starting to receive a barrage of abuse for it.

The facts are simple. The course was frosty and it was freezing temperatures, so there was a chance that it could be frozen in places. He asked the starter and he said that it was ok to play. He has gone out and slipped on ice and broke his ankle. Not made a fuss about it until the clubs legal representatives contacted him and he was told not to contact or visit the club. He has know seen that it is being turned into a legal issue, so correctly got his own advice. Colin has found out he can end up getting quite a few grand for this. (my mate got £7K for his broken ankle on the course).

Should Colin accept some of the blame? Yes, he chose to go out there knowing that it was freezing conditions, so there was always the chance of encountering ice.
Should the club take some responsibility? Possibly as they could have carried out a better check of the course to check for any ice that has formed, especially in an area that supposedly is vulnerable to it.

If this does go through and you win I just hope that it does not have any long term effect on golf clubs and their liability insurance.

I do not think that people are not making this a person assault on you, they are more frightened about the possibility of it having a longer term effect on golf clubs.

Get well soon....:thup:

 

[Colin2324]

So you specifically asked if it was safe? gies a break.

Sorry if I am being thick but do you think we asked about safety or think we didn't ask . I think one of us said ' what's it like out there' . The context of that question concerns safety, we weren't asking if we would meet anyone nice or if there were any good pubs on the way.

no one said ' is it safe '

 

[SharkAttack]

You admit yourself that you felt the conditions under foot changing, surely you should have stopped and returned to the clubhouse if you thought it was dangerous and if you didn't think it was dangerous then why are you trying to blame someone else for not closing a part of the course you thought was okay to walk on.

A golf course is not a flat gripping surface to walk on at any time of the year, let alone when it is frosty. If you feel that golf clubs should check every part of the course in case there is a part that someone might slip on, then we would never get on the course as it would take so long to do. Get your own insurance and you can get cover for every eventuality as long as you pay for it and then you can fight your own insurers for compensation.

Shark

 

[Colin2324]

I do not think that people are not making this a person assault on you, they are more frightened about the possibility of it having a longer term effect on golf clubs.

Get well soon....:thup:[/QUOTE]

thanks. I can take a bit of abuse. It's what you expect on any forum where people can run their mouth off behind a keyboard and not be challenged in any way. I am not daft enough to expect support for claiming against a golf club on a golf forum.

The purpose of my post was to A. Gauge opinion on safety as a whole and B see if anyone else had any similar experiences. Not sure i succeeded on either level so I will make this my last post on the subject as I think I have given enough of a platform to the opinionated and the cretinous and those with some value to contribute aren't really being properly heard. There is some stuff that has come up that I haven't really fully thought about in terms of the impact there might be and the implications of the road I am on, so it's been useful in that respect

 

[jpenno]

Within the course of this page you have changed the basis of what was asked prior to starting the round,

you also completely ignore the fact that in December the temperature can change dramatically over the period of time to play 9 holes and you fail to accept that any of this could possibly be your fault

 

[Colin2324]

I have lodged a validated hourly record of the temperatures that weekend with both parties. There was a rise of 2 degrees between 7am and 11am on the day of the accident.

Not sure in what way my recollection of the pre tee off conversation has ever changed but there you go. You may be seeing something I can't see.

 

[BTatHome]

Interesting update to golfer who won a recent case after being hit by ball .....

Remember the story of Anthony Phee – the golfer who was awarded nearly £400,000 in damages two years ago when he was struck by a ball during a round in 2007 which caused his eye to “explode”?

Now there’s been another twist in the tale.

Niddry Castle Golf Club, which was initially ordered to cover £120,000 – around 30 percent of the damages – has lost its appeal and must now pay £320,000, representing approximately 80 percent.

After the initial ruling, the club and James Gordon – the golfer whose ball struck Phee – had launched appeals. But three appeal court judges have ruled the “lion’s share of blame” rests with Niddry Castle for its lack of warning signs around the course.

The remaining 20 percent to be paid to Phee – who lost his job as a railway engineering supervisor as a result of the injury – is to be made up from Gordon and insurers.

Alex Rae, of insurance specialist Tonic Golf told Golf Club Management’s Alistair Dunsmuir: “It is thought that Niddry Castle’s insurers will appeal this new ruling. But the case is proving to be very expensive for the club – regardless of whatever the final decision will be.”


Just last month former Walker Cup player Gavin Dear found himself in court being sued by David McMahon, a ball spotter who was struck by a stray ball from Dear at the Scottish Amateur Champion of Champions event.

“This isn’t an issue that clubs and golfers can hide away from,” added Mr Rae. “The £50,000 figure that David McMahon is seeking could have been significantly higher than that amount if he was about half his age and had an occupation which required good eyesight.”

 

[jpenno]

I have lodged a validated hourly record of the temperatures that weekend with both parties. There was a rise of 2 degrees between 7am and 11am on the day of the accident.

Not sure in what way my recollection of the pre tee off conversation has ever changed but there you go. You may be seeing something I can't see.

You have still not confirmed what time you arrived, teed off or got to the 10th tee

You have changed your version of events from definite questions to I think someone may have asked.

It would be great fun to watch you in the witness box being cross examined by a decent barrister

 

[Colin2324]

You are missing the Point - They are not taking it down the legal route - You are.

You could have dropped this by accepting it was your fault

Christ are you even reading this thread or are you just having a general seethe about a subject close to your heart. I have fully explained how we got to where we are. Clearly I think there is fault on their part. I would have thought that was bleeding obvious. If I Thought it was my fault would we even be having this discussion ? Jesus is this as complex as some people are making it out to be.

yes I could have hobbled away and forgot about it. But I didn't want to. I wanted to make a point and I wanted financial recompense for 4 months of pain. It really is that easy and I get that you don't agree with my actions, but enough now.

 

[jpenno]

Christ are you even reading this thread or are you just having a general seethe about a subject close to your heart. I have fully explained how we got to where we are. Clearly I think there is fault on their part. I would have thought that was bleeding obvious. If I Thought it was my fault would we even be having this discussion ? Jesus is this as complex as some people are making it out to be.

yes I could have hobbled away and forgot about it. But I didn't want to. I wanted to make a point and I wanted financial recompense for 4 months of pain. It really is that easy and I get that you don't agree with my actions, but enough now.

I am not having a general seethe, I make a decent living out of ill concieved litigation ;-) . The fact that you now admit its about the ££ but would not risk your own money says it all.

 

[stevie_r]

Hello all.


How do people feel about risk on the golf course ? How responsible should a club be for safety of its guests or is it simply my own damn fault for embarking on a game in zero temperatures. How do people feel about making claims for this sort of thing ?

Do you recognise the quote above? It's from your opening post. People have made it very clear how they feel about it and yet you don't like the responses you are getting. Presumably therefore you were just after sympathy and for everyone to assuage that feeling you have inside that tells you you are in the wrong.

Edit: oh, and getting rude and nasty about. Hey, just a thought, perhaps you are right, and everyone else is wrong!!!!

 

[bluetoon]

Jesus is this as complex as some people are making it out to be..

Nope not from where i'm sitting.

You chose to play golf in freezing conditions.
You chose to wear plastic cleated shoes for winter golf
You chose to absolve yourself of any personal responsibility.
You chose to sue the club.

simples! :thup:

 

[williamalex1]

We should really be grateful to Colin for highlighting how easy it is to make a claim against a club . The answer is signing a disclaimer, whether as a member or as a guest before your allowed to play on any course.
ps. Colin [ how to make friends and influence people ] i hope you enjoy your next invite .

 

[Blue in Munich]

We hobbled across the 11th and 13th fairways to get to the car. One of the guys recevered the balls from the 10th fairway, so we know those fairways were iced over in places.

So, despite now knowing how treacherous it was underfoot, regardless of the physical danger to himself, one of your playing partners bravely risked bodily injury to go and retrieve ten quids-worth of golf balls? Unbelievable.

 

[upsidedown]

. I wanted to make a point and I wanted financial recompense for 4 months of pain..

Next complaint aimed at the NHS then for poor pain management ?

Dude you fell over on ice on a frosty day and were unlucky to break an ankle " it is what it is " Don't care where it happened you lost your footing , it was an accident !!