Injury on an icy course

[Naybrains]

It's potentially even more difficult than you say, the conditions in the winter change by the minute. the course can be fine one minute then, as the sun goes down, turn really cold and icy the next. It can be dry then a rain storm sees it under water. It is impracticable to have a up to the minute, ongoing, safety assessments and that is why golfers have to take some personal responsibility. He said it was frosty and a grown up would have to assume that if its cold enough for frost then its going to be very likely there will be ice about. I can't see for the life of me why he thinks that someone else is responsible for advising him of something that would be patently obvious, it is, after all, a hazard of winter golf - he knows that and if he wasn't willing to accept the risk then he shouldn't have played!

There are clearly risks attached to everything that you do in life and I readily accept that if someone is negligent and it causes injury then compensation is rightly awarded but in this case Colin, who I dont thinks has responded to answer the foot wear question as yet, seems to ignore the fact that the conditions were clearly poor and that he should have been more vigilant and maybe sue the two members who he was with for taking him out in such conditions!

Wonderfully put Chris, Exactly how I see it.

 

[FairwayDodger]

A couple of years ago I sustained a bad ankle injury during a BMF class. These are outdoor circuit training classes run with a "military" sort of theme. I stood in a concealed hole while trying a sharp turn, went over and something snapped! Ligament damage for me rather than a break although the latter may have meant a quicker recovery.

To me, this was just one of those things that could have happened to anyone running in a grassy area and it never occurred to me to sue.

However, the BMF people were great. Helped me get back to the start, administered first aid and were genuinely concerned about me. Moreover, their head office subsequently phoned me to see how I was and "froze" my membership during my recovery so that I wasn't paying when I couldn't train.

It would be a great shame if we reached the point in our society where each party can't treat the other decently in cases of genuine accident. I understand why the GC's attitude would have irked the OP and contributed to the decision to sue; although I still think it wrong to do so.

Hope the ankle mends soon!

 

[birdieman]

Apologies if this has been said already as I cant be bothered reading 26 pages but I would say you should have taken out specialised golf insurance which covered such eventualities and claimed on them as you'd be paying them a monthly or yearly premium. Trying to lay blame at the foot of the club in this instance is not right imo.

 

[jimbob.someroo]

Can't believe I've just read this whole thing - more than I read during my entire Uni degree.

My only point to add is that I think someone from the club ought to have mentioned that the area may have been more treacherous. The greenkeepers will have been round the course to put the flags up in the morning and if there was indeed sheet ice on certain areas, they should have mentioned this to the pro/starter. Even a quick "just be careful up on the 10th, it might be a bit harder underfoot" would have sufficed and protected the club a little more.

However, whether or not I'd sue, I'm not sure. It's hard to put myself in the OP's shoes.

Best of luck with the recovery.

 

[Colin2324]

A question for the OP.
If you had to pay for taking the case to court and risk losing money if you lost, would you still sue?

No I couldnt afford to take the chance of losing.

 

[Rooter]

I haven't commented on this thread yet.. now please someone correct me if i am wrong, but if it was that cold, sheet ice was on the fairway, the OP would have been pretty aware it due to the fact it was at least 0 degrees outside, would have de-iced his car before going to the course, worn a hat, gloves, base layers... now to me, if its that cold, i quite often think "it might be a bit slippy in places today" whether on the course, down the road, whatever..

Has common sense left the building? is it not obvious that it may be slippy in places in sub zero temperatures, or do you need someone (read the starter, pro, your wife, your mum) to warn you that cold = slippy?

sorry, sueing a golf club because you slipped in those conditions is a joke. I do hope your ankle mends quickly and you are ok, but i also hope you don't see a penny from the club.

 

[Colin2324]

just to clear this up, you slipped at the point the frost became ice, and broke your ankle. Hobbled off the course and contacted the club the next day?

So who told you that the 3 holes in front were iced up?

We hobbled across the 11th and 13th fairways to get to the car. One of the guys recevered the balls from the 10th fairway, so we know those fairways were iced over in places. Those hoes are the 3 most exposed holes on the course and were worse than any other area on the course. I didnt know that until I stepped on the 10th fairway. It would have been so easy for a greenkeeper to walk up there in the morning, test it with a fork to see if there was any give, and cordon off the worst bits.

If having done that the starter says 'be careful up on 10-13 lads, its a bit worse up there', then I have no case if I still go on and play. The fact is that he said it was 'fine' when we asked and I strongly suspect that no one, greenkeeper ot otherwise had been up there that morning to even look at it. That is entriely contrary to what the club and greenkeeping policies state they are supposed to do and that was their fatal mistake which left me in pain for 4 months

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I just wonder what the golf course and their lawyers will make of it being discussed on an open forum

 

[Colin2324]

I just wonder what the golf course and their lawyers will make of it being discussed on an open forum

First of all I have taken great pains not to identify myself or the course concerned. If someone else on here recognises my case and exposes detail then that's not my doing and I would ask for such identification to be removed from the forum by the mod team.

Secondly I would imagine they will be delighted that the golfing community universally and strongly opposes claiming for personal injury no matter to what extent they may have been negligent.

 

[Colin2324]

I haven't commented on this thread yet.. now please someone correct me if i am wrong, but if it was that cold, sheet ice was on the fairway, the OP would have been pretty aware it due to the fact it was at least 0 degrees outside, would have de-iced his car before going to the course, worn a hat, gloves, base layers... now to me, if its that cold, i quite often think "it might be a bit slippy in places today" whether on the course, down the road, whatever..

Has common sense left the building? is it not obvious that it may be slippy in places in sub zero temperatures, or do you need someone (read the starter, pro, your wife, your mum) to warn you that cold = slippy?

sorry, sueing a golf club because you slipped in those conditions is a joke. I do hope your ankle mends quickly and you are ok, but i also hope you don't see a penny from the club.

i questioned the conditions. Don't be so bloody stupid of course I questioned the conditions. The starter indicated that the course was playable AND safe because we specifically asked about the conditions.

 

[MetalMickie]

i questioned the conditions. Don't be so bloody stupid of course I questioned the conditions. The starter indicated that the course was playable AND safe because we specifically asked about the conditions.

Hang on!

According to your original statement the starter said it was OK & playable.
Are you now saying he said it was safe, an entirely different situation as there are dangers on a golf-course whatever the weather.

 

[Andy]

i questioned the conditions. Don't be so bloody stupid of course I questioned the conditions. The starter indicated that the course was playable AND safe because we specifically asked about the conditions.

Do you accept any liability at all in this incident or is everyone else at fault?

 

[Colin2324]

Do you accept any liability at all in this incident or is everyone else at fault?

I haven't had an offer based on a share of liability so I won't be able to answer that one.

 

[bluetoon]

Can you answer the question about what type of spikes you were wearing?

 

[Colin2324]

Hang on!

According to your original statement the starter said it was OK & playable.
Are you now saying he said it was safe, an entirely different situation as there are dangers on a golf-course whatever the weather.

He 'indicated' it was safe in response to a question he was asked. He said 'yes, it's okay, it's playable' There isn't any contradiction there.

 

[stevie_r]

i questioned the conditions. Don't be so bloody stupid of course I questioned the conditions. The starter indicated that the course was playable AND safe because we specifically asked about the conditions.

So you specifically asked if it was safe? gies a break.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Do you accept any liability at all in this incident or is everyone else at fault?

I haven't had an offer based on a share of liability so I won't be able to answer that one.

Take that as a no then - until you get the cheque in your hand. Clearly you don't think you did anything wrong. Walking 150 yards on an already injured leg, mentioning it on a public forum (someone somewhere will know of you and the incident) plus all the other discrepancies that seem to have come out from the OP

 

[Colin2324]

Can you answer the question about what type of spikes you were wearing?

I have 3 pairs of golf shoes. None of them have the old style metal spikes. None of them have the modern dimple soles. They have varying types of medium to hard cleats but I can't remember now which ones I was wearing. Neither of them would be effective on solid ice but all of them would have offered a degree of stability and safety in routine frost.

 

[chrisd]

He 'indicated' it was safe in response to a question he was asked. He said 'yes, it's okay, it's playable' There isn't any contradiction there.

It's playable doesn't mean it's safe in my opinion!

 

[MetalMickie]

He 'indicated' it was safe in response to a question he was asked. He said 'yes, it's okay, it's playable' There isn't any contradiction there.

Oh yes there is.

Playable does NOT mean safe. Playable would be taken as the greens or temps were not lost under casual water, that where casual water existed on areas through the green there was somewhere for relief to be taken etc.

It certainly does not provide any guarantee that conditions were safe as no one can offer that guarantee.