Indyref2

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And here's me and the Mrs staying in Embra Thursday night to have a look around Thursday/Friday - as she's thinking of us moving up within a couple of years...ah well...

 

[lobthewedge]

Yip a total failure of leadership all round.

I'm truly disgusted with the SNP today. More so than usual!

Entirely agree, I am scared to watch the news for fear of smashing a 5 iron through the screen.

So sad at what has become of this country, and the uncertainty that lies ahead. All due to the pathetic calibre of politician we have been lumbered with over the past 20 years on both sides of the border.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

The timing of Sturgeon's announcement was clearly chosen only to pre-empt the possibility that the PM might say something about Article 50.

I hope the Scots care enough about their future to see the total illogicality of a nation of 5mill with dubious economic prospects trying to get the attention of the 27 rEU countries when they have considerably more serious domestic troubles.

There is also the real possibility that the EU may yet sub-divide into a 'core' contributors and the 'rest'.

Sturgeon needs to take a deep breath and a serious major review and risk assessment of the developing politico/economic landscape in the EU- an independent Scotland could be a very bleak and isolated place.

Nations with a population of 5millionish include Denmark. Norway, Switzerland and New Zealand.
Last time I looked they seemed to be doing Ok.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Nations with a population of 5millionish include Denmark. Norway, Switzerland and New Zealand.
Last time I looked they seemed to be doing Ok.

All those countries are also on sound financial footing - Scotland clearly isn't

Last time the big financial point was all about the oil fields etc - thankfully for Scotland that was found to be a massive miscalculation and Scotland right now would be struggling in a big way financially

Nothing has changed since then and Scotland would be mad to break away - they don't appear to be in any position to be allowed to join the EU so why on earth would they leave the UK

 

[ColchesterFC]

Maybe not so bad though as the EU tries to give the poorer and struggling countries in the EU a good 'leg-up' so that over time they become economically more productive and stable.

Not sure why Scotland would be a more bleak and isolated place than a post-Brexit UK struggling to forge relationships with countries around the world whilst at the same time having to put severe limits on immigration.

As someone that complains about the lies that the Leave campaign told perhaps you should stop propagating your own lies. Unless of course you are able to provide a link to where anyone from the Leave side of things has suggested "severe limits on immigration". You're getting as bad as DelC. It's been pointed out dozens of times that it is about CONTROL of immigration and deciding who comes here and not simply allowing anyone from 27 other countries to come here just because they want to. It's really not a difficult concept to grasp but you seem to be deliberately ignoring that fact.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Nations with a population of 5millionish include Denmark. Norway, Switzerland and New Zealand.
Last time I looked they seemed to be doing Ok.

Have you looked at the tax rates in the first two countries you mentioned (I'm not sure what they are in Switzerland)? And also the sovereign wealth fund that Norway has to finance it?

I asked you before what level of tax rises or cuts to services would you accept to cover the costs of independence but you didn't answer it. Perhaps this time you'll have a answer. Also would you be prepared to join the Euro as part of EU membership?

 

[lobthewedge]

Nations with a population of 5millionish include Denmark. Norway, Switzerland and New Zealand.
Last time I looked they seemed to be doing Ok.

So the call for indyref2 comes about because scotland will lose its eu membership.

But you see Norway and Switzerland, 2 European countries who are not in the eu, as successful examples we could emulate.

I'm confused??

 

[Doon frae Troon]

All those countries are also on sound financial footing - Scotland clearly isn't

Last time the big financial point was all about the oil fields etc - thankfully for Scotland that was found to be a massive miscalculation and Scotland right now would be struggling in a big way financially

Nothing has changed since then and Scotland would be mad to break away - they don't appear to be in any position to be allowed to join the EU so why on earth would they leave the UK

You have answered your own question by agreeing that Scotland has fared badly under UK rule.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You have answered your own question by agreeing that Scotland has fared badly under UK rule.

So couple of questions

Do Scotland make more than they spend ?

The countries you use as an example are a combinations of - high tax , backed by sovereign wealth and not in the EU

So which model will Scotland follow ?

 

[IanM]

You have answered your own question by agreeing that Scotland has fared badly under UK rule.

If that statement was a drive, you'd be pegging it up again and playing 3 !

 

[Old Skier]

Even funnier would be if Scotland voted for independence in late 2018 and it then became clear that the EU were willing to negotiate a better deal for the UK to remain in the EU including the right to veto any new members joining. A second referendum was held early in 2019 and the UK voted to remain in the EU under these better terms and then vetoed Scotland's membership application.

This scenario nearly makes it worth going for a second referendum.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

As someone that complains about the lies that the Leave campaign told perhaps you should stop propagating your own lies. Unless of course you are able to provide a link to where anyone from the Leave side of things has suggested "severe limits on immigration". You're getting as bad as DelC. It's been pointed out dozens of times that it is about CONTROL of immigration and deciding who comes here and not simply allowing anyone from 27 other countries to come here just because they want to. It's really not a difficult concept to grasp but you seem to be deliberately ignoring that fact.

Perhaps some honesty from Leavers that for many control over immigration means severely cut immigration. As it happens I don't think that severe limitations (I actually meant constraints) will make very much difference whatsoever to immigration levels. I read today of a Pret a Manger manager looking for staff, 50 applicants - one 'Brit'. Seems that many of our out of work countrymen aren't too impressed by that sort of unskilled work. Just as well we have plenty of immigrants willing and able.

 

[Old Skier]

And here's me and the Mrs staying in Embra Thursday night to have a look around Thursday/Friday - as she's thinking of us moving up within a couple of years...ah well...

A scot moving to Scotland, that's a novelty.

 

[pendodave]

Perhaps some honesty from Leavers that for many control over immigration means severely cut immigration. As it happens I don't think that severe limitations (I actually meant constraints) will make very much difference whatsoever to immigration levels. I read today of a Pret a Manger manager looking for staff, 50 applicants - one 'Brit'. Seems that many of our out of work countrymen aren't too impressed by that sort of unskilled work. Just as well we have plenty of immigrants willing and able.

One of the reasons productivity is so low in our country, and terms&conds so poor is the endless supply of cheap labour. Having a bit less of it might not be the worst thing, especially for those currently on the lowest wages.

 

[ColchesterFC]

And you're happy with that situation are you SiLH? A company based in the UK can fill a totally unskilled role with an overseas worker, from any of the EU27 countries, rather than advertise via a job centre and get an unemployed UK citizen off the dole and in to work. Control of immigration means that we can bring in the workers we need whether that is nurses, doctors, layers etc but why should we be allowing people to sit and rot on the dole rather than taking available jobs just because someone from Latvia happens to have applied. Cut out the low skilled immigrants and force our unemployed to work and still allow skilled migration for roles that are essential.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Guys, using Norway with it's oil fund wealth is not really a clever answer.

Why did Westminster not follow their example in the 1970's.?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Guys, using Norway with it's oil fund wealth is not really a clever answer.

Why did Westminster not follow their example in the 1970's.?

You have been asked a number of questions which you appear to be avoiding

So which method would a Independent Scotland use to ensure they are financially viable - high taxes ? Borrow money ?

 

[ColchesterFC]

Nations with a population of 5millionish include Denmark. Norway, Switzerland and New Zealand.
Last time I looked they seemed to be doing Ok.

Guys, using Norway with it's oil fund wealth is not really a clever answer.

Why did Westminster not follow their example in the 1970's.?

We didn't use Norway as an answer. YOU did.

 

[lobthewedge]

Guys, using Norway with it's oil fund wealth is not really a clever answer.

And to think I almost put a block on your posts, I might have missed this little corker.

Outstanding!

 

[Raesy92]

I always find it quite amusing when I hear 'If they don't get what they want, they'll just keep going until the decision suits them' or something similar.

If nothing had changed, the vote would go the same way, not the way those wanting another referendum would like. However, something as clearly changed in this instance. One of the key arguments for Better Together was that to guarantee staying in the EU the should vote NO. Apart from the currency issue I would imagine it was the next most spoken about aspect.

Given the Scottish electorate voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU (unlike the tiny majority elsewhere) you would think this is enough of a reason to call for a second referendum.