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Increased distance - Golf Balls vs Club Technology?

delc said:
If we ordinary club golfers played on courses in the perfect condition that most of the PGA Tournaments seem to be in, off the forward tees, I am sure that we would find golf an easier game. As most tour pros can hit the ball miles with their hi-tech clubs, and expect to get on the greens in regulation most of the time, the only way to separate the men from the boys is to trick up the greens by making them lightning fast. Tournament golf these days is mostly about putting, so maybe the US TV channels have got it right after all! :mmm:
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No we wouldn't. There is more to these course than length. While I accept these are US PGA courses, I have played both the West Course at Wentworth and the Montgomery at Carton house off of forward tees and both chewed me up and spat me out. The position of bunkers\hazards and cut of the fairways can make it very difficult for the amateur golfer to play these courses.
 
Slab said:
Erm if tournament golf is all about putting doesn't this conflict with your opening post a little ;)
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Yes, but in the old days, getting onto the green on 400+ yard par-4 hole in two was quite a feat. These days with modern clubs, it's a drive and a flick with a wedge! So tee-to-green golf has become larger irrelevant in top level golf and it's mostly down to the putting. You might just as well have a putting contest without bothering with the rest of the game. This wouldn't make much difference to US TV coverage anyway! :rolleyes:
 
delc said:
Yes, but in the old days, getting onto the green on 400+ yard par-4 hole in two was quite a feat. These days with modern clubs, it's a drive and a flick with a wedge! So tee-to-green golf has become larger irrelevant in top level golf and it's mostly down to the putting. You might just as well have a putting contest without bothering with the rest of the game. This wouldn't make much difference to US TV coverage anyway! :rolleyes:
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no it wasn't .. it was a strong 3 wood and then a 6 or 5 iron ... (but those lofts today would be 7 or 6 iron... :p) if I used a driver and i popped it up the middle it may have been a club less, but I could hit a 3 iron down the throat of any flag then so I never worried what I hit next as long as the first was in play or playable...

Your getting carried away with the loft changes in irons, I never carried a 52 degree wedge, it was too close to my pitching wedge loft ...
 
delc said:
Actually YES; otherwise I wouldn't play the stupid game! :)
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I just wondered why, given that almost every single post of yours want to moan about aspects of the game, change the rules and criticise anything that advances the sport.

One further point.

All the changes since the "old days " still mean that the best player wins at the end of the week on tour, its as its ever been! if the longest hitters always won then you might have a point and, ultimately it does always come down to a putting competition but only between those who have played the best, tee to green. Arnold Palmer, I checked, used to drive about 260 yards and so he only would have 140 to a 400 yard hole. Many pros can boom it to 320 but that, I believe is longer than the average drive, many holes are 450 yards now for tour players on par 4'sw, so, the big hitters have 130 to the green - not wholly different than in the 50's and the player all use the same quality of equipment and balls, so, the best player each comp still wins.
 
If it has already been said I apologise...

But, don't some old school pro's support a reduction in 'performance' for the ball?

Not fussed either way as I'll never be able to hit it as far as I could 20yrs ago...
 
harpo_72 said:
no it wasn't .. it was a strong 3 wood and then a 6 or 5 iron ... (but those lofts today would be 7 or 6 iron... :p) if I used a driver and i popped it up the middle it may have been a club less, but I could hit a 3 iron down the throat of any flag then so I never worried what I hit next as long as the first was in play or playable...

Your getting carried away with the loft changes in irons, I never carried a 52 degree wedge, it was too close to my pitching wedge loft ...
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I don't think the irons have changed as much as the woods, except for slightly longer shafts and, as you say, stronger lofts. Think this is a ploy by the makers to persuade you that you are hitting the ball further than you really are for a given club number/loft. In the old days wedges were about 52 degrees loft, but now they are typically 48 degrees, same as an old time 8-iron, so it's really a con. I now need a gap wedge as I find a pitching wedge doesn't have enough loft for little shots around the green. :mmm:
 
I wonder what the average driving distance for the average Amateur has increased by in the last 20 years...?

Who really cares how far Bubba and Freddie hit it? They're Professionals, it's their job and it doesn't affect us at all.
So Bubba can hit one 400 yards - so can many others but the game they play is nothing like the game we play.
I can't hit the ball any further now than I did 15 years ago - that's probably more down to age as much as anything else but for us, the average Amateur golfer, I doubt there's been much of an increase since the Great Big Bertha era - when Titanium became the Driver material.
And even if there has been I don't see many 500 yard par 4's being reached in 2 by ordinary Amateurs....

So what's the question about?
 
Imurg said:
I wonder what the average driving distance for the average Amateur has increased by in the last 20 years...?

Who really cares how far Bubba and Freddie hit it? They're Professionals, it's their job and it doesn't affect us at all.
So Bubba can hit one 400 yards - so can many others but the game they play is nothing like the game we play.
I can't hit the ball any further now than I did 15 years ago - that's probably more down to age as much as anything else but for us, the average Amateur golfer, I doubt there's been much of an increase since the Great Big Bertha era - when Titanium became the Driver material.
And even if there has been I don't see many 500 yard par 4's being reached in 2 by ordinary Amateurs....

So what's the question about?
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I wish I could hit it anywhere near as good or far as I did 15 years ago lol
 
Imurg said:
I wonder what the average driving distance for the average Amateur has increased by in the last 20 years...?

Who really cares how far Bubba and Freddie hit it? They're Professionals, it's their job and it doesn't affect us at all.
So Bubba can hit one 400 yards - so can many others but the game they play is nothing like the game we play.
I can't hit the ball any further now than I did 15 years ago - that's probably more down to age as much as anything else but for us, the average Amateur golfer, I doubt there's been much of an increase since the Great Big Bertha era - when Titanium became the Driver material.
And even if there has been I don't see many 500 yard par 4's being reached in 2 by ordinary Amateurs....

So what's the question about?
Click to expand...


My brother in law came back from 8 years in Australia this year, he pulled out his old clubs and started playing with me. He is a natural ball striker but was unable to out drive me with his Callaway Steel head driver (not sure what model but 9.5*). He was constantly about 5 yards behind me. He did not like it, it was the first time in our lives this has been the case and I insisted that all my 460 was giving me was forgiveness and that I was now more of a man than him....

A kind member of this forum sold him some ugly Cobra driver(460) for very cheap money just to give him an idea. I don't think I have got many drives close to him since. He is a minimum of 10 yards ahead of my 95% of the time.


Clearly not an experiment but some what interesting.
 
delc said:
I don't think the irons have changed as much as the woods, except for slightly longer shafts and, as you say, stronger lofts. Think this is a ploy by the makers to persuade you that you are hitting the ball further than you really are for a given club number/loft. In the old days wedges were about 52 degrees loft, but now they are typically 48 degrees, same as an old time 8-iron, so it's really a con. I now need a gap wedge as I find a pitching wedge doesn't have enough loft for little shots around the green. :mmm:
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Really?! so 4 degrees of loft covered 3 clubs?!
 
Wabinez said:
Really?! so 4 degrees of loft covered 3 clubs?!
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Er No! Old time club specs were typically: SW 56, PW 52, 9-iron 48, 8-iron 44 degrees and so on down in 4 degree increments. Nowadays a SW is still 55 or 56 degrees to fulfill its main function of getting out of bunkers, but pitching wedges can have as little as 45 degrees of loft. As I said more like an old time 8-iron! You may have a 10 degree gap between SW and PW, so a gap wedge is almost essential!

For further reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_(golf)
 
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