How would you have dealth with this scenario...

philly169

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A few weeks ago, I played in our clubs Winter BB Matchplay Knockout against a pair known to be slow. Due to rain our course had been limited to holes and playing time and the deadline lapsed. Both pairs agreed to do a coin toss as we couldn't arrange a time we could all play, however when the other pair contacted the event organiser, they said we had to play it and they were advised to book a tee slot and if we couldn't make it we forfeited, even though we had given a number of dates previously.

So they booked a time and gave us the good news of either playing or forfeiting and it was less than 24 hours notice, they booked on Friday afternoon to play Saturday morning. Luckily, my partner and I were able to rearrange our plans and could make it.

We turned up and was greeted by 1 of the pair, as the other was doing a charity event and would turn up later, we said "yeah that's not a problem, he can join up when he can"... So we began playing, as a 3 ball.

The lad who had turned up played off singles figures and hit the ball well, but he was extremely slow. Fiddling around in his golf bag at every opportunity, checking his phone, selecting his clubs, practice, setup on every shot. it took us over an hour to do the first 3 holes and groups were catching us up. When we mentioned that we had lost a lot of ground and that 4 balls behind were catching up and he refused to accept he was playing slowly. I can understand he wanted to play as a pair, but we couldn't help his partners schedule.

We kept having discussions about it up to the fifth where i began to check the rule book and time the hole. After all 3 of us hit our tee shots, my partner and i walked up to ours which were further ahead, but low and behold he was fumbling in his bag and casually walking to his ball before setting himself up. The next two holes took around 25 minutes each.

This was the case until his partner turned up on the 9th. Although still playing slow, they had sped up a little. The only problem now was the big black clouds covering the skies on the 10th. with 4 holes not in play, we got to the par 5 14th and the heavens opened. We played 14 and 15 (id prepared and in waterproofs) and everyone was soaked through. 16 and 17 were not in play, so we got to the 18th A/S. My partner and the other lads partner had decided to call it quits as they were soaked, so i decided i had not gone through all of this to do a coin toss in the clubhouse and said I'll carry on for our pair, so the slow lad decided to carry on as not to lose... we even'd the hole and ended up doing a coin toss anyway which we lost..

A very frustrating day with 14 holes taking over 4 and a half hours.....

-- To add some more frustration..

They played their next round on saturday, in front of the scramble competition and were two groups in front of us and we were stuck behind for the whole round... it was very slow..
 
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londonlewis

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Wow, you poor guy. That sounds like a very poor outing and very unfortunate for you to have lost.
Can't believe that someone could take 25 minutes on each hole. That's over 7 hours to play a round....
 

sawtooth

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Nightmare. I guess there wasnt much else you could have done at the time but I would certainly have a word with the captain about the slow play. There is a guy at our place that every dreads playing with because he is so meticulous and slow. Enough people complained and the captain had a quiet word. The player in question did improve after that. I think the captain threatened to ban him from comps if he didnt!!!
 

philly169

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Wow, you poor guy. That sounds like a very poor outing and very unfortunate for you to have lost.
Can't believe that someone could take 25 minutes on each hole. That's over 7 hours to play a round....

I can understand that he didnt want to be at a disadvantage, but as soon as his partner turned up they sped up, there was less bag ruffling...
 

chrisd

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Rule 2-4 says that a match can be conceded at any time, before the start or at anytime before its conclusion. I would have suggested that your organiser couldn't have stopped you from tossing for the match with the losers then conceding the game at that point.
 

Tommo21

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A few weeks ago, I played in our clubs Winter BB Matchplay Knockout against a pair known to be slow. Due to rain our course had been limited to holes and playing time and the deadline lapsed. Both pairs agreed to do a coin toss as we couldn't arrange a time we could all play, however when the other pair contacted the event organiser, they said we had to play it and they were advised to book a tee slot and if we couldn't make it we forfeited, even though we had given a number of dates previously.

So they booked a time and gave us the good news of either playing or forfeiting and it was less than 24 hours notice, they booked on Friday afternoon to play Saturday morning. Luckily, my partner and I were able to rearrange our plans and could make it.

We turned up and was greeted by 1 of the pair, as the other was doing a charity event and would turn up later, we said "yeah that's not a problem, he can join up when he can"... So we began playing, as a 3 ball.

The lad who had turned up played off singles figures and hit the ball well, but he was extremely slow. Fiddling around in his golf bag at every opportunity, checking his phone, selecting his clubs, practice, setup on every shot. it took us over an hour to do the first 3 holes and groups were catching us up. When we mentioned that we had lost a lot of ground and that 4 balls behind were catching up and he refused to accept he was playing slowly. I can understand he wanted to play as a pair, but we couldn't help his partners schedule.

We kept having discussions about it up to the fifth where i began to check the rule book and time the hole. After all 3 of us hit our tee shots, my partner and i walked up to ours which were further ahead, but low and behold he was fumbling in his bag and casually walking to his ball before setting himself up. The next two holes took around 25 minutes each.

At this point Tommo picked up his ball, gave him it and said well played mate. If you're that desperate, you should have told us from the off and we would have given you it.

Done that a few years ago while up in a match. This guy was trying to be funny with non stop talking. I chipped close, walked up to my ball and he said take it away. I did, but he said, I meant the pin. At that point I started laughing as if it was the funniest thing I'd ever heard, then drew my straight face and said you can have the game. No game of golf is worth that crap.
 

Hammertoe

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I have to say I agree with Tommo on this one, this is a sport we play for fun, if someone is that desperate to win and trying to suck all the fun out of the game doesnt deserve me to play against him, all the match play games I remember are the ones I have had a bit of craic on where the guys I have played against had the same attitude to the game as me, lets go out and enjoy this, play to the rules and the best of our ability.
 

AmandaJR

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I play at the same club as Phil, having only joined there in March last year (crikey nearly a year then!). Before we joined we were told more than once that it was a very competitive, competition driven club and not so much a place for "social" golfers. That's true and that's fine BUT I do feel that there is sometimes a "too" competitive element where the lines of etiquette, never mind the rules are stretched. I have encountered players so keen to pick someone up on the rules that they "volunteer" to play with them in a competition in order to spot an infringement if at all possible and call it (and thoroughly enjoy the process). Plus, more than once, a general attitude of "well if you can't make those dates we claim the match" etc etc. At times a bit OTT and forgetting why we play this game and, to be frank, the level we play it at!

It doesn't sit comfortably with me and it's not how I play my golf, nor why I play it. Sadly it means that more and more I find myself reluctant to sign up for some competitions - especially knock-outs.
 

Twire

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I'm with Tommo on this, I'd have told him if he was that desperate he can have it.


BTW why did you toss a coin rather than going down the 19th?
 

philly169

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I'm with Tommo on this, I'd have told him if he was that desperate he can have it.


BTW why did you toss a coin rather than going down the 19th?

Because it had started hammering down with rain, getting too dark and started thundering and lightning. Really shouldn't have played the 18th as there was thunder and lightning but I wasn't going to give in..
 

Doon frae Troon

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25 minutes a hole is quite decent for a 4 ball, according to some on here.
Therefore I don't think you can accuse him of playing slowly.

If you had won the coin toss, would you have posted?
 
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Given them the game and ensure I would never play with them again

And if the club is serious competition driven I would also look to leave

The attitude and behaviour of your opponents is pretty disgraceful and disgusting tbh - a club amateur comp should never ever be take that serious to the point you forget about why we play the game
 

the_coach

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the 25 minutes was as a 3 ball...

Had we have won outright without a coin toss, then probably not have posted.


There are rules governing 'undue delay' in regard for being ready and time taken to execute a player's shot.

It's obvious from his behavior he was deliberately delaying his own play and therefore the match in order to have played as few holes as possible until his partner turned up.

Penalty at first offense (first time he undue delayed any shot any hole in matchplay - loss of hole.
Second offense - loss of hole.
Third offense - Disqualification.

If the Club prides itself in 'serious' competitions, and the committee is serious in up-holding the rules of golf pertaining to that 'serious' competition and if the one that became two players consider themselves to be part of that 'serious' competition, then they should all be playing under 'all' the rules that govern competition and not just the ones that suit their own particular needs on that day.
 
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HomerJSimpson

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I play at the same club as Phil, having only joined there in March last year (crikey nearly a year then!). Before we joined we were told more than once that it was a very competitive, competition driven club and not so much a place for "social" golfers. That's true and that's fine BUT I do feel that there is sometimes a "too" competitive element where the lines of etiquette, never mind the rules are stretched. I have encountered players so keen to pick someone up on the rules that they "volunteer" to play with them in a competition in order to spot an infringement if at all possible and call it (and thoroughly enjoy the process). Plus, more than once, a general attitude of "well if you can't make those dates we claim the match" etc etc. At times a bit OTT and forgetting why we play this game and, to be frank, the level we play it at!

It doesn't sit comfortably with me and it's not how I play my golf, nor why I play it. Sadly it means that more and more I find myself reluctant to sign up for some competitions - especially knock-outs.

My club has a very competitive calendar but it isn't the be all and end all. There are plenty that know the rules (or assume they do) but in all my years there, including when we were in the middle of the race course there has never been anyone that has deliberately gone out looking for a competitor to infringe just to call it. I have been pinged a few times, argued the toss a few times, sometimes recording two scores and leaving it to the comp sec to sort, and sometimes accepted the decision and got on with it.

I'm not sure I'd enjoy such an atmosphere where winning is everything. I love the roll up games some weekends with Hawkeye and our the regular faces. Sometimes these can be fierce, usually in terms of banter. It is all about having a game a laugh and chucking a couple of quid in the kitty. No pressure. I wouldn't enjoy playing monthly comps as I'd be looking over my shoulder all the time
 
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