4BBB can you mark your own card

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

There were several questions being asked by many different people afterwards

I can see how 47 pts can be scored in a better ball comp…I watched two of my mates score 48 (though their marker thought 49) to recently win the Cleeve Hill Open 4 ball. But that’s perhaps not the point in question…

 

[Swango1980]

I can see how 47 pts can be scored in a better ball comp…I watched two of my mates score 48 (though their marker thought 49) to recently win the Cleeve Hill Open 4 ball. But that’s perhaps not the point in question…

Nope. I can see how it can be scored. Although, to win a competition with 65 entrants, and to be the only pair to mark your own card, coincidence

 

[D-S]

So have we now agreed that having a pair mark their own card is acceptable under the rules if the committee rules that it is?

 

[wjemather]

So have we now agreed that having a pair mark their own card is acceptable under the rules if the committee rules that it is?

No. However, we are agreed that there are committees that are not following the rules.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Can never understand how trust can be given to a 4 man team to mark their card correctly but trust can’t be given to a two man team

 

[Swango1980]

Can never understand how trust can be given to a 4 man team to mark their card correctly but trust can’t be given to a two man team

If it was feasible to play as an 8-ball, then I guess we'd insist the 4 man team has to have a marker.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Can never understand how trust can be given to a 4 man team to mark their card correctly but trust can’t be given to a two man team

It is a contradiction, isn't it?

 

[wjemather]

Can never understand how trust can be given to a 4 man team to mark their card correctly but trust can’t be given to a two man team

There are significant differences between just one pair out of the entire field marking their own scorecard (due to committee failings), and every side in the field marking their own scorecard (due to practical necessity).

 

[Arthur Wedge]

There are significant differences between just one pair out of the entire field marking their own scorecard (due to committee failings), and every side in the field marking their own scorecard (due to practical necessity).

Committee failing ?

if a pair has been let down and are on their own then I can never see a reason why they shouldn’t be allowed to compete in the comp and mark their own card

It’s a sport built on trust and integrity

 

[Swango1980]

Committee failing ?

if a pair has been let down and are on their own then I can never see a reason why they shouldn’t be allowed to compete in the comp and mark their own card

It’s a sport built on trust and integrity

Why have a marker at all then?

In a singles competition, would it be a good idea to have 1 balls go out and mark their own card?

On any other thread, have you ever suggested there are golfers out there who cheat their way to a false handicap?

 

[D-S]

Why have a marker at all then?

In a singles competition, would it be a good idea to have 1 balls go out and mark their own card?

On any other thread, have you ever suggested there are golfers out there who cheat their way to a false handicap?

But you accept people marking their own card in teams format?

 

[wjemather]

Committee failing ?

if a pair has been let down and are on their own then I can never see a reason why they shouldn’t be allowed to compete in the comp and mark their own card

It’s a sport built on trust and integrity

It's not difficult for committees to adjust groups on the startsheet, and if necessary make up a group of 3 at the end.

I'm not sure flouting the rules and integrity are comfortable bedfellows.

 

[Swango1980]

But you accept people marking their own card in teams format?

Yes, I accept that because I can't see a suitable alternative. I know a lot of people do not, as they've openly said they won't bother playing Opens because they don't trust a few that may compete in those events. Whether that be around accuracy of handicaps / marking score. I'm not sure I'd be entirely comfortable if my golf club said that everyone can mark their own score in singles competitions. I'm sure 95-100% of those scores will be perfectly fine, but it will always throw into doubt anytime someone gets a very good score and there was nobody to attest for it. Not even devious, plenty of times I've had to correct the score someone has told me, because they innocently miscounted their own score.

I've played a Team open before where I heard a Team of 4 fill in their scorecard during dinner after the event. Best 2 scores count on each hole, they finished with 128 points. The second placed team, which happened to be their mates, had 121 or 122 points. Third place was an excellent, but distant 95 or so points. OK, that was the most extreme example I can ever remember. But, personally, I'd always say I've a little less confidence in the accuracy of posted scores in Team or 4 Open events than I would in the results posted in a singles competition.

 

[PaulMdj]

It's not difficult for committees to adjust groups on the startsheet, and if necessary make up a group of 3 at the end.

I'm not sure flouting the rules and integrity are comfortable bedfellows.

It is if a pair is let down minutes before they are due to tee off and no committee members are around to sort it out.

Plus if the group were meant to tee off early are you really suggesting asking them to hang around for maybe upto 6 hours to tee off?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

It's not difficult for committees to adjust groups on the startsheet, and if necessary make up a group of 3 at the end.

I'm not sure flouting the rules and integrity are comfortable bedfellows.

But it’s ok for 4 people to be trusted ?


Why do you trust 4 but not 2 ?

If they are the last group and everyone else has gone out why can’t they be trusted to make their own card

 

[wjemather]

It is if a pair is let down minutes before they are due to tee off and no committee members are around to sort it out.

Plus if the group were meant to tee off early are you really suggesting asking them to hang around for maybe upto 6 hours to tee off?

We're discussing organised competitions.
Not sure I've ever heard of a competition where there is a 6 hour gap between tee times.

 

[wjemather]

But it’s ok for 4 people to be trusted ?


Why do you trust 4 but not 2 ?

If they are the last group and everyone else has gone out why can’t they be trusted to make their own card

See #28. Everyone marks their own score vs. everyone except one pair has a marker.

They make up a group of 3 with the penultimate group.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

See #28. Everyone marks their own score vs. everyone except one pair has a marker.

They make up a group of 3 with the penultimate group.

What if the penultimate group has already gone

It’s a sport of trust and integrity, we trust the field and players everytime they go out , we trust 4 people to make their score correctly

We trust a 2 ball playing singles to make their card coteectly

There is no reason why we can’t trust a paid to mark their card correctly

 

[DickInShorts]

You can see from some of these posts why Texas Scrambles (4 player) are easily abused - especially when there is often £100 each (in Scotland) for winning.
I believe cheating is endemic in the Open scrambles so don’t play in them after one of my (then) mates suggested it would be ok to cheat as ‘who would know’!!!

 

[Swango1980]

What if the penultimate group has already gone

It’s a sport of trust and integrity, we trust the field and players everytime they go out , we trust 4 people to make their score correctly

We trust a 2 ball playing singles to make their card coteectly

There is no reason why we can’t trust a paid to mark their card correctly

I assume you are simply giving an opinion on the Rule of Golf that requires a score to be attested? Rather than giving any definitive Ruling.

The Rules of Golf require a score to be attested, and so I assume this is a Rule a Committee should not simply decide to ignore in a 4BBB competition? Whereas, if a Team of 3 or Team of 4 competition, it is blatantly obvious why it wouldn't be practical to have a marker. So, presumably that is why that Rule can be relaxed in such competitions, and why competitors entering such competitions are happy enough with that condition. And, those that are not, will probably not bother entering in the first place.

Would you be happy for the Rules of Golf to scrap having a marker entirely, so golfers can just submit their own scores in any competition without any attestation?