How to make a PROPER backswing!!

[Fish]

What do you mean? I've seen your comments about me *elsewhere* so I have nothing to prove. Just because I think your post on an internet forum was lame doesn't mean that I can't teach.

You'll have to pm a link to that, don't remember mentioning you or referring to you but if I did, it would have been my honest opinion.

I haven't said you can't teach, I said that it wasn't a very good response from someone who's looking to coach, a very defensive if not rude response IMO, especially italicing the word "think".

Is it only your way or the highway, I think you'd have a high turnover of pupils with that attitude.

 

[Fish]

Very common indeed, you discuss it with the person you are teaching..... it's their swing and they decide according to their own goals, you can only advise.

But you said it's wrong! Do you tell that your pupil and give them a choice or say I only teach the proper method, sorry....next...

 

[JustOne]

You'll have to pm a link to that, don't remember mentioning you or referring to you but if I did, it would have been my honest opinion.

I haven't said you can't teach, I said that it wasn't a very good response from someone who's looking to coach, a very defensive if not rude response IMO, especially italicing the word "think".

Is it only your way or the highway, I think you'd have a high turnover of pupils with that attitude.

It's not 'my way or the highway', I just posted the PROPER way... like I said if someone wants to swing it around their ankles then they can. People do... and I'm sure they will continue to do so, but if the thread helps ONE person then it was worth writing (IMO)

 

[JustOne]

But you said it's wrong!

It is wrong... that's 3 times I've said that... you would advise them that it's wrong, you could offer a tweak here and there if they want to build on that WRONG SWING or you can advise that they swing a bit more 'orthodox'.

think of it another way... someone grips the club with an uber strong grip... do you not think the pro would instantly try and get them to use a more neutral grip? was their original grip WRONG? or should the pro build them an entire swing based around their uber strong grip?

 

[Fish]

It is wrong... that's 3 times I've said that... you would advise them that it's wrong, you could offer a tweak here and there if they want to build on that WRONG SWING or you can advise that they swing a bit more 'orthodox'.

think of it another way... someone grips the club with an uber strong grip... do you not think the pro would instantly try and get them to use a more neutral grip? was their original grip WRONG? or should the pro build them an entire swing based around their uber strong grip?

You've missed the point, not surprising in the circumstances.

You have put together a vid on how to make a proper swing but make no reference that people may be already very comfortable and more importantly, successful with their current swing, should they change for changes sake just because its not the "proper way"?

You make no reference to this so your vid, IMO, is pushing a potential harmful message that what some people may be doing is wrong and they should stop immediately, is that what your saying!

 

[JustOne]

You've missed the point, not surprising in the circumstances.

You have put together a vid on how to make a proper swing but make no reference that people may be already very comfortable and more importantly, successful with their current swing, should they change for changes sake just because its not the "proper way"?

Depends on the level of change. If you were a 20 h/cap golfer and you wanted to get to 15 h/cap do you not think your golf pro might suggest you had a better chance if you swung the club more ON plane rather than nowhere near?

If you were hooking and your pro said that was going to happen because of your strong grip would it not be changed even if you could then hardly hit the ball for a couple of months?

If you don't think people go thru this to get better then that's fair enough, but I can assure you that many, many people make changes for the long term gain.

 

[Fish]

Depends on the level of change. If you were a 20 h/cap golfer and you wanted to get to 15 h/cap do you not think your golf pro might suggest you had a better chance if you swung the club more ON plane rather than nowhere near?

If you were hooking and your pro said that was going to happen because of your strong grip would it not be changed even if you could then hardly hit the ball for a couple of months?

If you don't think people go thru this to get better then that's fair enough, but I can assure you that many, many people make changes for the long term gain.

You haven't answered the question, your referring to people with noticeable faults, if you have no major faults with the back swing, as such, should people change to the proper way just because its that, proper?

 

[JustOne]

your referring to people with noticeable faults, if you have no major faults with the back swing,....

If you had no major faults you'd already have a good swing

You might have minor faults.... even Mickelson, Woods, Rose, etc etc have swing coaches!

 

[Fish]

If you had no major faults you'd already have a good swing

Not according to you you wouldn't, by major faults I meant you didn't always hook or slice it, it generally went straight or always had the same shape BUT, it wasn't a proper back swing, should those people change or would you attempt to change them and tell them their back swing or total swing was wrong even though there was no major fault with what it was achieving!

 

[Smiffy]

Steady on you two. You'll be playing against each other next August at Gainsborough!!

 

[Fish]

Steady on you two. You'll be playing against each other next August at Gainsborough!!

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=JustOne&word2=Fish

No contest :smirk:

 

[JustOne]

Not according to you you wouldn't, by major faults I meant you didn't always hook or slice it, it generally went straight or always had the same shape BUT, it wasn't a proper back swing, should those people change or would you attempt to change them and tell them their back swing or total swing was wrong even though there was no major fault with what it was achieving!

It's up to THE PLAYER. Taking your 2 h/cap buddy as an example... if he's happy with his game then he can swing it how he likes. If he's not happy then he has choices and it's up to him to decide accordingly. I don't think I've ever changed someone's swing who didn't want to.

If I make a post about the 'PROPER grip' will we be debating all those who already have a grip they like?

 

[Fish]

It's up to THE PLAYER. Taking your 2 h/cap buddy as an example... if he's happy with his game then he can swing it how he likes. If he's not happy then he has choices and it's up to him to decide accordingly. I don't think I've ever changed someone's swing who didn't want to.

If I make a post about the 'PROPER grip' will we be debating all those who already have a grip they like?

Ironically the reason his swing is low but extremely effective is his grip is in reverse, by that I mean he is right handed with his left hand being the lower in a base ball style, is that wrong? Maybe if he changed his grip he would achieve a proper back swing, I'll let him know at the weekend where he's going wrong...

 

[brendy]

Do you two lovebirds want to take this to pm's before it turns messy...again or can you keep it civil?

 

[Fish]

Do you two lovebirds want to take this to pm's before it turns messy...again or can you keep it civil?

I don't see any issues here, do you? I'm simply debating a point of view

 

[One Planer]

I'd like to chip in if I may?

When I went for lessons earlier in the year, I was an classic example of the two points (James and Fish).

I had an unconventional self taught swing. The swing, on its good days, was very effective. On the bad days it was honking.

My old swing got me around my course in a PB of 74 and I'd crack 80 every now and again, typically then last round before lessons shooting 77.

You may ask, why would I change my swing?

Simple. I wasn't shooting as low as often as I'd like and my handicap was stagnant at 17 (I only got to 16 through annual review). My misses were quite severe, and on both sides of the course.

We all have a mental image of how we swing a club, myself , I thought pretty similar to Justin Rose :rofl:

When my pro first videod me as part of my lessons, shocked doesn't he even come into it. So many faults and compensations it wasn't even funny.

I set out for the long term, not a short term patch. My pro understood this and has worked with me since to make my swing stronger. I started at the beginning. Stripped it right back and began afresh. Lots of practice and swearing, but progress is being made :thup:

My misses are now much less severe, my handicap has dropped to 14 and I'm breaking 80 more and more often.

I couldn't do this with 'patches' on my old swing. It would require compensations elsewhere in the swing to make it work regularly.

I went back to the beginning as I'd only been playing 3 years so I didn't have 20 years of bad habits to break, although the old habits of mine still creep in from time to time.

If I'd been playing for 20 years with my old swing, I'm sure the habits would be much harder to break.

My point is this. It's all about what you want from your swing and where you want to go with it. If you want to get lower from a new player or stagnant handicap, you have to accept that chances will have to take place.

How far you want to take those changes is up to you, how much you want to change is up to you. The pro can advise, and you obviously pay for his advise, but how much you actually change comes down to you as a person and where you want your swing to be in the long term.

 

[Robobum]

"Proper"??!!

Interesting description you use there. How many people have you seen with this "proper" backswing?

 

[Fish]

"Proper"??!!

Interesting description you use there. How many people have you seen with this "proper" backswing?

None, theirs a huge gap in the market though to teach it :smirk:

[that's a joke by the way before anyone gets @rsey]

 

[CMAC]

Do you two lovebirds want to take this to pm's before it turns messy...again or can you keep it civil?

defeats the point of a public forum though wouldnt it

They both are being civil and it's an interesting debate- well I find it interesting:thup:

 

[SocketRocket]

Thats a good explanation of how the club should move in a model backswing James. It would be 'Model' in that it creates the ideal angles that have the best chance for good ball striking without having to make compensations.

OK, many golfers play good golf without a 'Model' type backswing as they have the ability to make suitable compensations in the downswing. However, many, many golfers have problems with good ball impact because their swing is not model and they do not have the ability and/or understanding how to return the clubface to the ball such that it creates good impact conditions.