How many 'Acceptable scores for H/cap' have you played this past season'?

[Arthur Wedge]

I despair. If what you say is true, your friend should not be allowed anywhere near a Handicap Committee - or any committee for that matter. Being on a committee needs a basic grasp of the rules.

Unfortunately it happens

 

[PJ87]

how long do you think it takes to walk and then hit a provisional compared to measuring out a drop ? Or do you just have a guess

And if the provisional is not obvious then would expect another to be put in play and that’s a perfect example of how the rule allows people an easy way out - hence why it’s a poor rule

How can you not see that by definition that is slower than using the rule

You may not agree with the rule that's another subject and your entitled to that opinion however it is factually faster

 

[Arthur Wedge]

How can you not see that by definition that is slower than using the rule

You may not agree with the rule that's another subject and your entitled to that opinion however it is factually faster

How is it “factually faster”

To take a drop you need to follow the process

Make the spot , then take two clubs, then take the drop

That’s not a split second action and plenty take their time over it - as opposed to walking 5 or 10 yards to another ball and hitting it

 

[PJ87]

How is it “factually faster”

To take a drop you need to follow the process

Make the spot , then take two clubs, then take the drop

That’s not a split second action and plenty take their time over it - as opposed to walking 5 or 10 yards to another ball and hitting it

If the ball is lost it's more than 5-10 yards off a fairway no?

Have you actually used the rule?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

If the ball is lost it's more than 5-10 yards off a fairway no?

Have you actually used the rule?

As your having to drop on the edge of the fairway do you not include the walk then as well

How do you take a drop ?

Nope because i have always hit a provisional if there is any danger and the club haven’t put the rule in place

 

[rosecott]

Genuinely interested in how it's not part of the "rules of golf" which would allow it to be in handicap rounds

It's a local rule , which is included in the rules of golf

Could you provide a link where it states it can't be used for handicap? I can see where it can't be used for comps

Just visit the R&A website and read the rule.

 

[PJ87]

As your having to drop on the edge of the fairway do you not include the walk then as well

How do you take a drop ?

Nope because i have always hit a provisional if there is any danger and the club haven’t put the rule in place

So having used both I can say in my experience it's quicker

However you have only used one method which is fine but you can't for sure give your opinion on what's faster as you have never used the other

 

[PJ87]

Just visit the R&A website and read the rule.

Can you link the exact rule where it says it can't be used for handicap please. Trying to find it however if you have it would be easier , thanks

 

[Arthur Wedge]

So having used both I can say in my experience it's quicker

However you have only used one method which is fine but you can't for sure give your opinion on what's faster as you have never used the other

Again how long do you take to drop a ball ?

I can give an opinion based on how long people take to drop a ball properly compared to how long it takes to walk to a ball and hit it

As it’s just in social rounds I’m guessing you just throw it in the local area

What if the provisional ball is within 2 yards of where you are searching

 

[PJ87]

@rosecott

• Alternative to Stroke & Distance
  A new Local Rule permitting committees to allow golfers the option to drop the ball in the vicinity of where the ball is lost or out of bounds under a two-stroke penalty. It addresses concerns raised at the club level about the negative impact on pace of play when a player is required to go back under stroke and distance. The Local Rule is not intended for higher levels of play, such as professional or elite level competitions.

This is all I've found ATM, why would a committee have to allow these rules if they weren't for handicap? Because if not and it's just me and Johnny playing a knock about why does it matter to the committee?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

@rosecott

• Alternative to Stroke & Distance
  A new Local Rule permitting committees to allow golfers the option to drop the ball in the vicinity of where the ball is lost or out of bounds under a two-stroke penalty. It addresses concerns raised at the club level about the negative impact on pace of play when a player is required to go back under stroke and distance. The Local Rule is not intended for higher levels of play, such as professional or elite level competitions.

This is all I've found ATM, why would a committee have to allow these rules if they weren't for handicap? Because if not and it's just me and Johnny playing a knock about why does it matter to the committee?

When the rule came out it was expected that Congu would allow it to be used in Handicap qualifying competitions

They didn’t - there was claims they back tracked so clubs pretty much were left with a rule that wasn’t much use beyond applying them in club KOs or Team comps etc

 

[Dunesman]

@rosecott

• Alternative to Stroke & Distance
  A new Local Rule permitting committees to allow golfers the option to drop the ball in the vicinity of where the ball is lost or out of bounds under a two-stroke penalty. It addresses concerns raised at the club level about the negative impact on pace of play when a player is required to go back under stroke and distance. The Local Rule is not intended for higher levels of play, such as professional or elite level competitions.

This is all I've found ATM, why would a committee have to allow these rules if they weren't for handicap? Because if not and it's just me and Johnny playing a knock about why does it matter to the committee?

You must play according to the local rules. You cannot choose which local rules to adopt. No more than you can decide to ignore a local rule.

 

[PJ87]

When the rule came out it was expected that Congu would allow it to be used in Handicap qualifying competitions

They didn’t - there was claims they back tracked so clubs pretty much were left with a rule that wasn’t much use beyond applying them in club KOs or Team comps etc

This is America which I accept we are not however it's clearer than our rules where they mention nothing about if it's acceptable or not where as they say it's up to the committee, which makes it more sensible.

I haven't found any document yet saying you can't use it

I know you will have it. Can you link it or screen shot please

 

[Arthur Wedge]

View attachment 55485

This is America which I accept we are not however it's clearer than our rules where they mention nothing about if it's acceptable or not where as they say it's up to the committee, which makes it more sensible.

I haven't found any document yet saying you can't use it

I know you will have it. Can you link it or screen shot please

It was in the Congu FAQ’s when the rule came out

https://www.scribd.com/document/413548138/2019-Congu-Manual

 

[PJ87]

It was in the Congu FAQ’s when the rule came out

View attachment 55486

https://www.scribd.com/document/413548138/2019-Congu-Manual

Doesn't that refer to distance measuring devices? (Dmd)

The only thing I can find is it cant be used for competition scores , doesn't say anything about general play scores

 

[D-S]

@rosecott

• Alternative to Stroke & Distance
  A new Local Rule permitting committees to allow golfers the option to drop the ball in the vicinity of where the ball is lost or out of bounds under a two-stroke penalty. It addresses concerns raised at the club level about the negative impact on pace of play when a player is required to go back under stroke and distance. The Local Rule is not intended for higher levels of play, such as professional or elite level competitions.

This is all I've found ATM, why would a committee have to allow these rules if they weren't for handicap? Because if not and it's just me and Johnny playing a knock about why does it matter to the committee?

This is the irritation with such things and the difficulty of searching for such obvious points inthe various documents - it is ver6 frustrating.
I definitively know that when using model local rule E-5, under CONGU scores are not acceptable. However apart from an oblique reference on page 53 of the Guidance to Handicapping under CONGU, it is almost impossible to find and corroborate.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Doesn't that refer to distance measuring devices? (Dmd)

The only thing I can find is it cant be used for competition scores , doesn't say anything about general play scores

As its says - not applicable for qualifying

The GP scores where also not applicable when the model local rule came out

When the rule came out the communication we got from Congu told us that the local rule couldn’t be used in any handicap qualifying

It’s possible that it’s in the WHS manual now

But they were very clear

It’s why many clubs didn’t put the Local rule in place

 

[PJ87]

This is the irritation with such things and the difficulty of searching for such obvious points inthe various documents - it is ver6 frustrating.
I definitively know that when using model local rule E-5, under CONGU scores are not acceptable. However apart from an oblique reference on page 53 of the Guidance to Handicapping under CONGU, it is almost impossible to find and corroborate.

I was trying to work through the document Phil linked However it's just one long advert. Whenever you think your at the right page it throws up another ad, had to give up lol

Isn't congu dead now? It's all Whs?

 

[PJ87]

@Arthur Wedge @rosecott

Right I've found it



This is from the whs handicap handbook 2024

Clearly says you can use it no? Well I say clearly. It uses a lot of words to put it out there that it could be acceptable

 

[PJ87]

This is the irritation with such things and the difficulty of searching for such obvious points inthe various documents - it is ver6 frustrating.
I definitively know that when using model local rule E-5, under CONGU scores are not acceptable. However apart from an oblique reference on page 53 of the Guidance to Handicapping under CONGU, it is almost impossible to find and corroborate.

I've just found in the whs handbook that for general play it may be acceptable, so I share you irritation. These rules are supposed to be easy to follow no? It's taken me at least half an hour to find it. With people involved in committees telling me I'm wrong yet the official handbook says it's allowed (might be allowed)

So it's clear as mud

For reference

Rules of Handicapping and Guidance Document

www.englandgolf.org

Was where I got the document and it's page 36-37