how has the "equality" laws affected your club?

[HughJars]

Ours seemed to have been unaffected, then one lady decided she had to play mens medal day.

Now I have sympathy, our lady's day is midweek, they have few weekend medals, which was her point, she struggles to maintain a handicap.

However our captain (I beleive it was his ruling) jumped the gun, and rather than let her play and hand in cards, she is actually counting within the men's comp. Now surely equality doesn't need to go that far? It's all about being able to play surely?

While we were discussing this on the club veranda as our sole lady was about to tee off in her first game, it was jokingly suggested that a couple of us would be turning up on Tuesday for the Ladies medal. "Oh, but you can't do that!" says the Lady H'cap sec.

Why not?


So, how has your club dealt with this, and can women win mens comps now and vice versa?

 

[jammydodger]

Havnt noticed anything in particular being affected.

I certainly would be puttting my name down for the ladies midweek medal though. Principles and all that , they cant have it all one way , its gotta be done fairly and that means they have to allow entry to their own comps otherwise they can be done under the equality laws I would assume

 

[Fyldewhite]

The equality laws do not apply to sporting competitions where men and women play in different competitions (gymnastics, tennis, golf etc).
However, if you have a rule that says women are not allowed to play on a Saturday for example then you will be in a bit of bother. The fact that women have equal rights to play (quite rightly IMO) does not mean they can enter a mens competition.
I suggest the powers that be at your club speak to the EGU rather urgently as they have much advice to offer on the subject.

 

[RichardC]

We have a reduced membership fee for women, but it means they cannot tee off 12pm on a weekend (only summer season). They requested that it be changed in the AGM, but were told if they want to play full hours they have to pay full fee.
There was a lady member that wanted to play in the MENS club championship and it was refused, but im not sure on what grounds the refusal was.

 

[Swinger]

We tried to bring in a new 5 day lady membership.

1st of Jan to the 5th of Jan.

Didn't go down to well for our captain who suggested it at our AGM.

Now they are kicking off because we want to take away some of their locker room space for clubhouse redevelopments. They don't have any comeback because they have 10% of the membership of the men yet the same locker room space. They also never use the showers yet won't let us take them away.

We have had to set tee times for lady medals at the weekends but did tell them that if they don't use them they will be losing them.

 

[USER1999]

No way. She can't compete in a mens comp. She isn't even playing the same course. At least Wie went off the proper tees, and then got stuffed.

 

[Fyldewhite]

We have a reduced membership fee for women, but it means they cannot tee off 12pm on a weekend (only summer season). They requested that it be changed in the AGM, but were told if they want to play full hours they have to pay full fee.

The above sounds dodgy under the new legislation. My understanding is that this would only be OK if the reduced fee (and hours) were avalable for men should any want to pay on that basis (otherwise it would discriminate against men). Also you cannot limit the "full" option to men only, those women wanting to play Saturday afternoons should have the option to pay full whack and do so. It may be possible to have tees reserved for a mens competition though but would have to be reasonable eg not 12 noon till dark etc.

 

[Smiffy]

I'd love to play in a ladies competition at Highwoods.
How good am I going to feel teeing off the tenth (138 yard par 3) only hitting 5 wood when they are having to hit driver?

 

[Macster]

Some places let women on the course ????

*shakes head*.........next we'll have men cooking the tea and doing the washing........

 

[Society_Fan]

Surely this is simple?
Same price same rules. If you pay the full price then you can play in the same competitions from the same tees. Maybe get a forward and a back handicap.

However will ladies want to pay the increased amount? especially with membership numbers reducing at the moment (see new mag), so there can be reduced times that you can play with reduced fees all open to men and women.

Why are some fellas so worried about playing in the same comp as ladies? You don't have to play in the same group, or is it down to the attitude towards ladies that some fellas have that they would not dream of showing to family, but are happy to show on the golf course?

 

[RichardC]

Surely this is simple?
Same price same rules. If you pay the full price then you can play in the same competitions from the same tees. Maybe get a forward and a back handicap.

However will ladies want to pay the increased amount? especially with membership numbers reducing at the moment (see new mag), so there can be reduced times that you can play with reduced fees all open to men and women.

Why are some fellas so worried about playing in the same comp as ladies? You don't have to play in the same group, or is it down to the attitude towards ladies that some fellas have that they would not dream of showing to family, but are happy to show on the golf course?

Why would you not play in the same group? If they are in the same comp then they are drawn with the comp. We have an 84 year old woman that plays and as great as it is seeing her playing at her age she take 4 1/2 hours to play 18. I would not want to play a medal with her.
If you use your same rules then men and women should play together in all sports!!!!

 

[HughJars]

Surely this is simple?
Same price same rules. If you pay the full price then you can play in the same competitions from the same tees. Maybe get a forward and a back handicap.

However will ladies want to pay the increased amount? especially with membership numbers reducing at the moment (see new mag), so there can be reduced times that you can play with reduced fees all open to men and women.

Why are some fellas so worried about playing in the same comp as ladies? You don't have to play in the same group, or is it down to the attitude towards ladies that some fellas have that they would not dream of showing to family, but are happy to show on the golf course?

I'd have no issue with that at all S_F. Trouble being, our club have decided that if a lady wants to play, she can, but off her normal red tees and her normal ladies handicap.

Now, let's say she plays in one of the biggest comps of the year, and with her greater than mens max handicap, let's say 35 for argument's sake, off a much shorter course, she wins by a shot, and you are second.

What's your opinion now?

 

[DCB]

We have Ladies as Ordinary members, paying the same subs as gents ordinary members. They have the same rights as we do. Simple solution really. Tee is open to all at any time other than when it is closed for a Competition.

As for playing in Gents Competitions, haven't had that one, but, don't see how it can happen according to the (in our case) SGU and LSGU competition and handicapping arrangements etc.

 

[Fyldewhite]

As stated above, if clubs are going down the road of allowing women to enter men's competitions because they think they have to (of course they may want to do this despite the legislation ??!!??) then they simply don't have to do this.

The EGU ran a series of presentations late last year at which all the likely implications were discussed. It was made very clear that sports where men and women play separately are not covered in terms of competitions. The issue is one of equal rights to membership, facilities, access etc.

Note the last FAQ on this link.......
http://www.englishwomensgolf.org/page.asp?id=461

 

[HRC99]

Why are some fellas so worried about playing in the same comp as ladies? You don't have to play in the same group, or is it down to the attitude towards ladies that some fellas have that they would not dream of showing to family, but are happy to show on the golf course?

Pace of play would be the main reason for me.

I don't think it is entirely fair to have mixed medals/competitions. Playing from a different tee in a different location means that it simply cannot be a level competition.

I think that point about attitude is hardly fair. You are talking about people's attitudes to strangers as opposed to loved ones.

 

[USER1999]

I don't think women are slower than men, slow people are just slow, regardless of age, gender or race.

I don't mind playing with lady golfers. It doesn't worry me, but I don't want to medal in the same comp as them. They have different tees (which take out alot of the hazards), different stroke indexes, and different handicaps. They do not compare, it is a different course they play. Their handicap is for their course, mine is for my course, we just share the same greens.

We have some mixed comps, but they are all non qualifying. That is as it should be.

 

[vig]

We allow them to pi$$ behind the same trees.

 

[JustOne]

Some places let women on the course ????

*shakes head*.........next we'll have men cooking the tea and doing the washing........

No chance!... well not until I've finished the ironing

 

[HomerJSimpson]

We don't have a problem unless you want a game on Tuesday morning when its ladies day. Go out between 9.30 and 11.00 at your peril if there any waiting to tee off. I didn't know "ladies" knew that kind of language

 

[Spinn77]

At ours the Girls generally have comps when we do, so they'll be two divisions for the men and a comp for the Girls. Although there is only a maximum of about 7 who enter at the weekend.

They dont join in with our comps. I think there may be one mixed game planned this year.

I'm sure its Tuesdays at our place too where the girls have a midweek game. There's probably 5 or 6 4balls who go out one after the other from about half 9. To be honest, if i head up there during a half term break then they will all let me play through, same if i've got a playing partner. There nice like that