How do you handle it when your advised you have broken the rules?

[Oddsocks]

How do you take it when your called on a rule infringement and called with a penalty of 1/2 strokes lost or loss of hole, which ever is relevant?

Today 2 penalties were called in our medal group both with different reactions:

First one, a mid 30's guy off about 16.  Plays pretty solid golf but has minimal understanding of the rules.  On two occasions he took questionable practice swings while in the rough and bushes.  On the third time our captain pulled him as he snapped some twigs on a practice back swing while in the edge of the woods.  As he was bang to rights although not impressed he took it like a man.

Second one:  a mid 60's player off around 22.  Been playing for years so must have a decentish level of understanding of the rules.  He put a ball into a fairway bunker, when he got to the bunker he proceeded to get the rake from one side, which he dragged out the sand effectively testing the surface, braking the rules, then took the rake into the bunker effectively braking the same rule again.  When the penalty was called/discussed he responded with " mark me whatever " clearly very unhappy with the decision.

Back in the club house the banter was high between us 4 but the older chap had clearly had he's nose put out of joint, when the subject rose he's response was that at he's level he thought the penalty was out of line, he played for enjoyment and would not be willing to play with the captain again, clearly very very put out by the whole thing.

I had a side chat and sort of defused the situation saying how would he feel if he had played the round of he's life only to lose to someone who hasn't played to the rules. He eventually  come round but I bet he holds a grudge over it. It was as if he only classed certain rules as a requirement for club golf.

Interested to hear how others would react and their own views

 

[thecraw]

I'd have smashed the rake into the captains face!

"Take that ya bazza!" would have been my war cry as I did so.

 

[bladeplayer]

If it were me & i wasnt sure of the rule id ask to clarify the rule with a 3rd pary when round finished before i signed for my score & i would do this in the presence of the person calling the infringement, if it turned out i had broken a rule id apologise to my playing partner & accept the penalty & sign card .. too many people THINK they know the rules but realy havent a clue ..

 

[Lipout]

If someone gets that angry, they probably know they were chancing their arm.
If they genuinely didn't know, i think they would be apologetic.
Sounds like Twiggy possibly knew this was dodgy, as for bloke raking around on the beach, bang to rights, you been busted mate.

 

[Oddsocks]

In all fairness the captain is very sharp on the rules and not one to call a infringement without being 150% sure. I've never known him to ve wring in a ruling.

 

[bladeplayer]

In all fairness the captain is very sharp on the rules and not one to call a infringement without being 150% sure. I've never known him to ve wring in a ruling.

well if i knew the guy calling the infringement that well and was confident he knew his stuff just apologise & accept the call ,, & learn from it ,,

 

[Oddsocks]

If someone gets that angry, they probably know they were chancing their arm.
If they genuinely didn't know, i think they would be apologetic.
Sounds like Twiggy possibly knew this was dodgy, as for bloke raking around on the beach, bang to rights, you been busted mate.

I think twiggy genuinely didn't know the rule, after it was explained and why the rule was in place , for example people could use multiple practice swings to improve the lie or clear twigs that may restrict the execution of the intended shot he was fine,

The sand man how ever thought we were just being petty. In a bounce game I wouldnt have bothered calling it bug in a medal I agree that it needed to be called

 

[fundy]

We had an interesting one last week in a better ball comp. My partners drive was likely in the water, but according to the guy we were playing with he couldnt be certain enough it was in the water (and we hadnt seen it enter) so said it had to be treated as a lost ball, and not a drop from the hazard.

My initial reaction was to get out the rule book and read the exact wording, and ultimately I agreed with the ruling the marker had made, my partner however didnt.

The ruling actually cost us the comp as we lost by a shot in the end, for me the right decision had been made so wasnt bothered, my partner was not at all happy and in effect has fallen out with the other 2 who played with us.

At the end of the day its only a game for fun at our level, if you break the rules take your medicine and move on.

The only caveat I have to this is there are a few in each club who seem to think their only purpose on the golf course is to find people breaking rules and penalise them, my attitude to them changes somewhat lol

 

[HomerJSimpson]

The guys being penalised have a number of options. Take it like a man like player A, take it like an idiot like player B or better still ask the captain to show the rule in the book we all have (don't we) in the bag. If you are unsure it is better to ask before you proceed or ideally get a decent understanding of the basics. Even then ask before you go ahead. I think the reaction of player B was very poor particularly to the captain and shows a certain lack of respect towards his position and the game

 

[Ethan]

Just to be a pedant, the captain has no more right than anyone else to "call a penalty" during a round. Penalties are called by the player or by the Committee. If the player does not agree with their playing partners insistence that they have incurred a penalty, the question should go to the Committee, and the Captain should be a witness rather than a decision maker on it.

Touching the sand with the rake is not, per se, a penalty. The penalty is testing the surface, and what constitutes testing that can be a matter of opinion. It may have been obvious when observed, but I have also known club officials who were 100% sure they know the Rules well but were 0% correct on occasions. If PGA Rules officials can get the Rules wrong occasionally, so can a local club captain.

 

[Oddsocks]

Homer, player b's attitude was almost " I know the rule, I know I broke it, but it's a stupid rule "

Fundy, do you not agree it's a shame when people fell out over it though. The captains response was justified and quote:

" by not calling a infringement I'm cheating every other player in this club who has paid an entry fee to this medal, and put their £5 into our swindle"

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I agree that the captain has no more right than anyone else to call a penalty but I was talking about the reaction afterwards. If a player doesn't agree then the best thing to do is to play two balls (one under the penalty and one as is) mark both scores and take it up afterwards.

I've been pulled up once or twice and the best thing to do is to listen to what was said, see if you agree, smile (through gritted teeth) and carry on. It isn't life and death at our level and as long as it isn't blatant cheating but rather a lack of knowledge or misintepretation I can live with it. People only learn through their mistakes and being taught.

 

[Oddsocks]

Touching the sand with the rake is not, per se, a penalty. The penalty is testing the surface, and what constitutes testing that can be a matter of opinion. It may have been obvious when observed, but I have also known club officials who were 100% sure they know the Rules well but were 0% correct on occasions. If PGA Rules officials can get the Rules wrong occasionally, so can a local club captain.

I agree totally. If the rake had been cleanly picked straight up and then cleanly dropped you could argue no surface testing had taken place. The rake was definately dragged around a metre minimum when he first retreived the rake from the bunker, to me that us is obvious test of surface or just plain lazy!

 

[fundy]

Totally agree oddsocks, but I think you also have to accept some people, especially in the heat of the moment, will take it badly. The falling out though is never justified when its at the end of a day a subjective decision.

As for captains being right, ours pulled me up a few weeks back on something, a few hours later and having reread the rule book several times I challenged his view and he revisited it and accepted that I was correct.

I have to admit having just come back after many years out Im a bit on egg shells re the rules, almost as if my knowledge is out of date and still catching up, I also think far too many golfers who enter comps have too little understanding of the rules

 

[HickoryShaft]

You get all sorts but having only just started playing comps I played with one of the '1st team' recently and he was fantastic.

He knew I was between clubs and struggling to decide what to hit and was going to ask about yardages, just off the cuff said ' I would love to tell you what yardage this was but if I did we both would be penalised' so avoiding me asking in the first place.

A couple of holes down when our third partner was in water off the tee and we had left our bags back at the path I was reaching for a spare ball I had in my pocket in case I needed a provisional and he pipes up ' We would both love to give you a ball but of course we can't or we will be disqualified' stopping me from offering. I checked with him later and he didn't even have a ball in his pocket just saw me routing for one.

His method was fantastic - put me at ease and avoided me getting into any sticky situations. I know I should know the rules but these are ones that you don't usually come across in friendlies so it was great to learn from someone who knows and also in a way that avoids you getting into hot water.

Had a great round as I was really at ease playing with him even though he was a real low H/C.

 

[Oddsocks]

It isn't life and death at our level and as long as it isn't blatant cheating but rather a lack of knowledge or misintepretation I can live with it. People only learn through their mistakes and being taught.

Sums it up nicely

 

[fundy]

You get all sorts but having only just started playing comps I played with one of the '1st team' recently and he was fantastic.

He knew I was between clubs and struggling to decide what to hit and was going to ask about yardages, just off the cuff said ' I would love to tell you what yardage this was but if I did we both would be penalised' so avoiding me asking in the first place.

A couple of holes down when our third partner was in water off the tee and we had left our bags back at the path I was reaching for a spare ball I had in my pocket in case I needed a provisional and he pipes up ' We would both love to give you a ball but of course we can't or we will be disqualified' stopping me from offering. I checked with him later and he didn't even have a ball in his pocket just saw me routing for one.

His method was fantastic - put me at ease and avoided me getting into any sticky situations. I know I should know the rules but these are ones that you don't usually come across in friendlies so it was great to learn from someone who knows and also in a way that avoids you getting into hot water.

Had a great round as I was really at ease playing with him even though he was a real low H/C.

He can share the yardage, distances are deemed public knowledge and can be openly shared by players as they are not deemed as advice

 

[rickg]

said ' I would love to tell you what yardage this was but if I did we both would be penalised'

We would both love to give you a ball but of course we can't or we will be disqualified'

Funnily enough H/S this guy was wrong on both occasions!!

You CAN give yardages as it is common knowledge and you CAN give someone else a ball as it is not considered part of your golfing equipment.

 

[HickoryShaft]

Hmmm

Interesting to find this out. Is it any different that his yardage was on a GPS? (I didn't have mine with me as was unsure if it was allowed in comps as it was my 1st one)

I better get my rules book out again.......

To be honest though it was still a great round with him and he has invited me to play again on a Sunday roll up so all's good.

 

[EZprophet]

said ' I would love to tell you what yardage this was but if I did we both would be penalised'

We would both love to give you a ball but of course we can't or we will be disqualified'

Funnily enough H/S this guy was wrong on both occasions!!

You CAN give yardages as it is common knowledge and you CAN give someone else a ball as it is not considered part of your golfing equipment.

Yup.

What the guy trying to help you was probably getting confused with was that you are not allowed to tell other players what club you've used, as this is not "public knowledge". Teeling another player yardages is fine.