rulie
Head Pro
However, as discussed previously, they make the hole smaller than the Rules-required 4 1/4 inches, ie, non- conforming.
Hole liners
- Thread starter upsidedown
- Start date
backwoodsman
Tour Winner
Not sure why that would necessarily be the case?
I have never actually measured one myself, but always assumed that the internal diameter of the insert is the required 4 1/4 inches. Would be a nonsense if they were not.
rulie
Head Pro
The earth is cut at 4 1/4 inches. Anything inside the cut hole at green level reduces the size of the hole, hence the recommendation that any liner be at least 1 inch below the surface, preserving that diameter of 4 1/4 inches.
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
Indeed - but the wording reproduced in post #8 of this thread clearly explains the principle that it may, if required, be less than 1" below the rim.
At no point does it say that there is a specific lower limit above which competitions may no longer be run so, it follows that a competition wouldn't suddenly become become NQ as long as it is below the rim!
rulefan
Tour Winner
Ignoring the length and flexibility of grass and microscopic measurements for the moment, a ball sitting with its centre of gravity above any point inside the circumference of the hole will fall into the hole.
If a lining is level with the rim, the thickness of the rim will affect whether it falls or not.
If the lining is below the level of the rim by the thickness of the lining, the ball will fall.
So in the real world, providing the lining is below the rim, it will have no effect on the result of a putt.
If a lining is level with the rim, the thickness of the rim will affect whether it falls or not.
If the lining is below the level of the rim by the thickness of the lining, the ball will fall.
So in the real world, providing the lining is below the rim, it will have no effect on the result of a putt.
rulie
Head Pro
You've presumed that is the only criterion to be considered, but there may be more than that. The Ruling bodies have made their one inch recommendation- perhaps for several reasons.
backwoodsman
Tour Winner
No real reason why the hole size should be reduced when a stabilising ring is inserted. With the grass and soil having elastic (or plastic, not sure which is the right term) properties, a hole stabiliser with an internal diameter of 4 1/4 inches will easily be inserted into a cut hole of same diameter. The surrounding grass/soil gets compressed slightly to enable the stabiliser to fit - and the snug fit makes it stay in place. That it has a slight taper will make it easier to put in.
rulefan
Tour Winner
You presume too much. I never suggested it was the only criterion or even a criterion for anything. It was simply an observation.
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
It should be remembered that a player always has the option of lowering the liner if they are worried about bounce out.
[h=2]16/4[/h] [h=4]Hole-Liner Not Sunk Deep Enough[/h] Q.A player discovers that a hole-liner is not sunk at least one inch below the surface as prescribed in the Definition of "Hole." What should he do?
A.The player should request the Committee to adjust the hole-liner. If a member of the Committee is not readily available, the player may, without penalty, push down or otherwise move the hole-liner and repair any damage (e.g., raised turf around the hole) caused by the hole-liner being out of position or being moved. In view of the potential for damage, a player should adjust a hole-liner only as a last resort and should take great care in doing so. (Revised)
[h=2]16/4[/h] [h=4]Hole-Liner Not Sunk Deep Enough[/h] Q.A player discovers that a hole-liner is not sunk at least one inch below the surface as prescribed in the Definition of "Hole." What should he do?
A.The player should request the Committee to adjust the hole-liner. If a member of the Committee is not readily available, the player may, without penalty, push down or otherwise move the hole-liner and repair any damage (e.g., raised turf around the hole) caused by the hole-liner being out of position or being moved. In view of the potential for damage, a player should adjust a hole-liner only as a last resort and should take great care in doing so. (Revised)
Shanker69
New member
They are extremely useful when used on practice putting greens where the holes aren't cut too regularly.Couple of weeks ago the holes at our place had inserts placed above the normal cup liners to give similar look to those we see on the tele when the holes are painted.
Brilliant really helps with long putts but surely ok only for non comps and yes we thought so as they disappeared but where absence for first two medals but were back today.
To me they shouldn't be there for comps as the hole becomes non conforming to the rules of golf so can the Medal be a qualifier ?
Your thoughts gentlemen and ladies
Maybe not a great idea on the course where there might be rule infringements.
I have searched for some of these for personal use on our own practice putting green because the holes definitely aren't cut as often as the course and become overgrown/bevelled.
The ones I have found are priced somewhat ridiculously at between £3.00 to £4.00 each. I'm sure someone who is handy with a band saw and an offcut of 110mm soil/sewer pipe could knock some out at a fraction of the price.
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Subsequent to my post, I actually managed to purchase one of these rings but it is of a very poor quality. I have been refunded without having to return it. It came from of course - China!
It is extremely flimsy and bends and deforms easily and when inserted in the top of a hole is definitely not uniformly round.
To be quite honest, a better job could be done with a length of 110mm soil pipe cut into 19mm annular rings - quite simple on a band saw. The soil pipe has better inherent rigidity.
The pipe comes in several colours depending on use. Brown, grey, and brown for underground sewers and white above ground. White is UV resistant and does not embrittle, so white is best. But white is quite rare in off cut lengths. I've got the feelers out for some but so far the only lengths I can get are a minimum of 1 meter, whereas I really only need half of that.
Again, I would have a few of these in my practice bag to use only on the practice putting green in order to square the hole up.
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Shanker69
New member
I have seen them on practice putting greens, (some years ago at Llangollen).
I have also seen them on a course on all 18 holes this year. I think it was Hawarden but I couldn't swear to it. It's been in the last few weeks, in a Senior's Open. We play somewhere every week but it's Hawarden or Antrobus that springs to mind.
So the top of the hole without a ring is 4.25" but below ground where the cup insert is is less by virtue of its wall thickness.
I have also seen them on a course on all 18 holes this year. I think it was Hawarden but I couldn't swear to it. It's been in the last few weeks, in a Senior's Open. We play somewhere every week but it's Hawarden or Antrobus that springs to mind.
So the top of the hole without a ring is 4.25" but below ground where the cup insert is is less by virtue of its wall thickness.
Backsticks
Assistant Pro
The spin out risk, or lack of absorbing some of the ball energy I guess contributes to few putts holed with them compared to soil for the top inch.
