Harriet Harman is off again

[Birchy]

I'm not saying that you CAN demand the TdF stages a woman's race - I'm saying that - like a business having to upgrade their premises to meet Fire Regs - if they had to, a way would be found. The fact that they don't and don't have to, is IMO simply a lack of will to do so. And maybe HH is suggesting that the TdF should make a bit more effort to stage one. By cancelling it they have indicated that a women's race is less important (which in the historical scheme of things it certainly is) - but nevertheless to many women it IS important - and may be more so in the future - if it existed.

That's all.

I dont agree that anybody ever could force something like that so we will just have to disagree on that one.

Ok then lets look at this from a slightly different angle.

A company has a very succesful product and rolls out another version which doesnt do as well so they stop making it etc. Why would or should they want to bring this product back despite it being a failure?? If this product was any good there is no way they would take this product out of production.

There has already been a ladies race which wasnt very successful by all accounts so maybe the focus should be on why it failed in the first place rather than just crying wolf and calling for it to come back?

Thats before it even gets onto Harman peddling this crap just to suit her agenda.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Fairway Dodger, I listed on here in another thread a number of things about great Britain that I felt needed attention and that MP's of either sex generally failed to address, NHS tourism, corporate tax dodges and illegal immigration to name but three. If having only 20% men in the parliament meant these and others got addressed then you're right, I wouldn't be happy; I'd be absolutely delighted. I'd be that delighted that I would actually campaign for it if that is what would happen. But I think hell will freeze over before an increased proportion of female MP's will make any difference to what is actually achieved in parliament.

NHS Tourism - tick, tick tick in that box from me. Stories my Mrs tells me...

And there is also the abuse of the NHS by UK citizens. Using private medical insurance to get a bit of preferential treatmen,t then when it comes to paying saying that they would expect the NHS to pick up the bill - and if the NHS says no then the NHS has the expense of chasing the patient for payment. And as that often costs more than what has to be paid the NHS has to let the patient away with it - fraud really.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I dont agree that anybody ever could force something like that so we will just have to disagree on that one.

Ok then lets look at this from a slightly different angle.

A company has a very succesful product and rolls out another version which doesnt do as well so they stop making it etc. Why would or should they want to bring this product back despite it being a failure?? If this product was any good there is no way they would take this product out of production.

There has already been a ladies race which wasnt very successful by all accounts so maybe the focus should be on why it failed in the first place rather than just crying wolf and calling for it to come back?

Thats before it even gets onto Harman peddling this crap just to suit her agenda.

Whoa - I'm not saying anyone can force a business such as the TdF to stage a women's race - but IF the TdF had to stage a race they would find a way. So without having to, I am sure that they could still find a way. The fact that they don't suggests to me thatthey don't think it that important or worthwhile - and that's why there's a petition - and that's why HH has given voice to that petition - the petition you call crap.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

A company has a very succesful product and rolls out another version which doesnt do as well so they stop making it etc. Why would or should they want to bring this product back despite it being a failure?? If this product was any good there is no way they would take this product out of production

Reminds me of a greenkeeping meeting I had once when a young greenkeeper made a suggestion.
I quickly responded by saying we tried that 5 years ago and it did not work.
He came back saying 'is there any reason why it would not work now, times have changed'
The team thought about it, and we did it, and it worked.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Reminds me of a greenkeeping meeting I had once when a young greenkeeper made a suggestion.
I quickly responded by saying we tried that 5 years ago and it did not work.
He came back saying 'is there any reason why it would not work now, times have changed'
The team thought about it, and we did it, and it worked.

Indeed - maybe a women's TdF race would be very successful next year given the fantastic success of British cycling in the last two Olympics and last two TdFs.

Tour of Britain goes past the end of my road i September - I'll be there watching it ghp past. Never imagined I'd ever be interested enough in cycling to do that sort of thing.

 

[Sweep]

Indeed - maybe a women's TdF race would be very successful next year given the fantastic success of British cycling in the last two Olympics and last two TdFs.

Tour of Britain goes past the end of my road i September - I'll be there watching it ghp past. Never imagined I'd ever be interested enough in cycling to do that sort of thing.

It's a French race...oh I can't be bothered

 

[Sweep]

Followed by you trotting out the Daily mail line again. Yeah we get it.

YAWN.

:rofl:

 

[SocketRocket]

You can't have a Women's TDF if no one wants to organise it. The question then is one of 'Why'? Either there is not enough interest, there are no sponsors, there are not enough Women who want to do it, if there was one then it would not be as good as the Men's race. Who knows? No manner of comments by HH will change anything, only a campaign to gather the facts and if they turn out favourable it needs someone with the get up and go to do something about it. Now would HH be that person? I doubt it.

 

[Paul_Stewart]

It's like when someone from the England women's football team started bleating on about how little they get paid compared to the Premier League players. That has nothing to do with equality, it's because no-one wants to watch you play. Same with the England women's cricket team who had someone on Test match special whingeing about the same thing. But have no fear girls, Harriet Harperson will soon be along on her soapbox to complain about that too.

 

[chrisd]

It's like when someone from the England women's football team started bleating on about how little they get paid compared to the Premier League players. That has nothing to do with equality, it's because no-one wants to watch you play. Same with the England women's cricket team who had someone on Test match special whingeing about the same thing. But have no fear girls, Harriet Harperson will soon be along on her soapbox to complain about that too.

.............. And I'm sure that we all watch ladies rugby? Boxing?

 

[USER1999]

I think the last two winners, may be the last three, of the ladies tdf were British. If sponsorship couldn't be raised to hold a stage in england when we were winning it, what's changed now?

If there was a commercial plan that worked, and would make money, they would be running one. There isn't, and it won't.

HH is never going to force the French to run a race, in their own country. If she thinks she can, she's lost it.

Our MPs should worry about running our country, not worry about private enterprises in others.

 

[Ethan]

I think the last two winners, may be the last three, of the ladies tdf were British. If sponsorship couldn't be raised to hold a stage in england when we were winning it, what's changed now?

If there was a commercial plan that worked, and would make money, they would be running one. There isn't, and it won't.

HH is never going to force the French to run a race, in their own country. If she thinks she can, she's lost it.

Our MPs should worry about running our country, not worry about private enterprises in others.

HH doesn't give a monkeys about whether there is a women's TDF. She only wanted to make a point that she is the champion of women, i.e. 50% or more of voters.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

She only wanted to make a point that she is the champion of women, i.e. 50% or more of voters.

And what on earth is wrong with being a champion of women's causes. I guess for you it's the fact that she does it out of self-interest. Well if her efforts are of benefit to women's causes then she deserves benefit to her personally. How often do you do something for others that is of absolutely no benefit to yourself - even if it's an 'that Ethan did this for me - he's a good guy'.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

HH doesn't give a monkeys about whether there is a women's TDF. She only wanted to make a point that she is the champion of women, i.e. 50% or more of voters.

Oh dear that won't do will it, a woman actually standing up for women's rights.
JEEEEEEEEEEZ some folk want to start living in the 20th centuary far less the 21st.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Oh dear that won't do will it, a woman actually standing up for women's rights.
JEEEEEEEEEEZ some folk want to start living in the 20th centuary far less the 21st.

^^^Absolutely with you on this. Seems like a politician can't do ANYTHING these days without being accused of doing it solely for self-interest. As you say - JEEEEEEEEEEZ.

 

[Ethan]

Oh dear that won't do will it, a woman actually standing up for women's rights.
JEEEEEEEEEEZ some folk want to start living in the 20th centuary far less the 21st.

Catch a grip. If you think HH is doing this for any reason other than self promotion, then you are very naive and have little understanding of 21st C politics. The only woman HH wants to advance is herself.

In any case, having a womens TDF is nothing to do with womens rights. If women wanted a womens TDF, there would be one.

Likewise for womens football and golf. Women watch more of the mens game than womens.

 

[User20205]

Catch a grip. If you think HH is doing this for any reason other than self promotion, then you are very naive and have little understanding of 21st C politics. The only woman HH wants to advance is herself.

In any case, having a womens TDF is nothing to do with womens rights. If women wanted a womens TDF, there would be one.

Likewise for womens football and golf. Women watch more of the mens game than womens.

agreed, it can be nothing but self promotion if she passes comment on something she has no jurisdiction over

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Catch a grip. If you think HH is doing this for any reason other than self promotion, then you are very naive and have little understanding of 21st C politics. The only woman HH wants to advance is herself.

In any case, having a womens TDF is nothing to do with womens rights. If women wanted a womens TDF, there would be one.

Likewise for womens football and golf. Women watch more of the mens game than womens.

But it doesn't matter!!

If she is promoting women's causes and giving them a voice (as she is) then I don't really care whether or not she is 'actually' doing it for herself. The cause and voice is heard - and THAT's what matter surely.

If you took that attitude then you would damn an MP for saying anything about anything as you'd accuse them of doing it for self-interest - as you seem to believe that HH (and it seems almost every MP) is solely driven by self-interest and that nothing else matters to her. I would rather be somewhat naive than as cynical as you.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

agreed, it can be nothing but self promotion if she passes comment on something she has no jurisdiction over

But an individual MP has no jurisdiction over ANYTHING??

 

[Snelly]

What a fascinating thread. Reminds me of my youth when I used to think that the Guardian had sensible editorials.

My view is that from a spectator perspective, women's sport is pretty dull. Same for disabled sport. Highly unpopular views I am sure. But clearly a view quietly shared by many as they are not well attended, well sponsored or given a high profile, despite the best efforts of the bodies concerned. Harsh as it sounds, they just aren't that watchable. Jessica Ennis getting gold is probably the exception that proves the rule.

And to be clear, I am not denigrating the efforts and achievements of the participants. I love all sport and everyone should play as much as they can. I am just saying that as professional, commercially viable entities, they struggle somewhat when compared to the blokes events.

And lastly, didn't this argument get done recently on the forum?


Harriet Harperson? A total waste of space...