Harriet Harman is off again

[ger147]

Actually I don't care - if it had to be held then someone would pay for it and it would happen. As usual a hurdle is thrown in the way that some see as stopping it dead in it's tracks rather than just accept that a way would be found.

I'm guessing Harriet and the 70,000 folk who signed the petition don't care either, unless of course they were asked to foot the bill themselves.

 

[Sweep]

I'm not in the least bit concerned whether 1 in 5 in favour of men or women or any other variation, I just want the best person available for the job!

Positive discrimination is still discrimination to me

Excellent post

 

[Sweep]

Of course not, but imagine the next parliament only had 20% men; you wouldn't be happy!

I would be perfectly happy, if the seats were filled with the best people for the job.
Why is it always assumed that anyone who is against this back door feminism is seen as anti equality? I, for one, am not and I take offence at the assumption that the opposite is true. Mrs. harman's policies in the main are anti equality, opportunistic and absolutely disingenuous. If you fall for this then more fool you.

 

[Birchy]

I very strongly suspect that if the TdF were told that they HAD to hold a womens race then it would happen.

In life if you are facing a journey it is easy to see all the obstacles in the way and so if you don't have to get there then you might not bother starting or you give up along the way - but if you have to reach your destination, the chances are that you'll get there.

If the will is there it will happen.

You cant make somebody who is in essence running a business open another branch just because somebody feels it will make it equal yet its not financially viable for it to happen.

If she gives that much of crap why doesn't she start up a womans tour? Or why hasn't a woman done it if they feel so outraged?? Instead of trying to force a man to do it for her?

Shes not really arsed about cycling just her own agenda thats why.

 

[Paul_Stewart]

The real reason we don't have as many women MPs is because they are all still at the petrol station doing their shopping and adjusting their mirrors instead of driving off .....

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You cant make somebody who is in essence running a business open another branch just because somebody feels it will make it equal yet its not financially viable for it to happen

Well actually you can. And if the business can't financially manage to do it then it goes out of business. I know of businesses that fold because they can't afford to bring their premises up to scratch to meet Fire Regs. That doesn't mean you don't require them to meet the Fire Regs.

The TdF would not go bust. If they really want to hold a women's race they could. Cost etc is a smokescreen - a diversionary tactic. The teams, sponsors and broadcasters would plough money into the TdF if there was a risk of it going bust. All it requires is for the TdF to decide that actually they should have a women's race - and they'll make it happen.

And HH doesn't have to be ar**d about cycling - but if she is ar**d about women's rights then she will promote the cause of those women who do care about a women's TdF - and there seems to be lots of them. Why does she actually have to care about the event for her to support the cause? She doesn't - it's the principle she's advocating - and if that is her agenda - then good - more strength to her elbow.

 

[MegaSteve]

Uuum.... I did have something to say yesterday before I went off to work... Looks like all salient points [and more] have been covered...

Just wish though that MP's would stick with the job in hand rather than 'issue' sound bites on 'stuff' of which they have no control...

 

[ger147]

Well actually you can. And if the business can't financially manage to do it then it goes out of business. I know of businesses that fold because they can't afford to bring their premises up to scratch to meet Fire Regs. That doesn't mean you don't require them to meet the Fire Regs.

The TdF would not go bust. If they really want to hold a women's race they could. Cost etc is a smokescreen - a diversionary tactic. The teams, sponsors and broadcasters would plough money into the TdF if there was a risk of it going bust. All it requires is for the TdF to decide that actually they should have a women's race - and they'll make it happen.

And HH doesn't have to be ar**d about cycling - but if she is ar**d about women's rights then she will promote the cause of those women who do care about a women's TdF - and there seems to be lots of them. Why does she actually have to care about the event for her to support the cause? She doesn't - it's the principle she's advocating - and if that is her agenda - then good - more strength to her elbow.

Since when does ANYONE, male or female, have a RIGHT to a Tour de France?

What a load of absolute nonsense. The Tour de France is not a right.

Having the vote is a right, free medical care is a right, education is a right, the Tour de France? Behave yourself!!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Just wish though that MP's would stick with the job in hand rather than 'issue' sound bites on 'stuff' of which they have no control...

Which would mean that mosty MPs needn't open their mouths in a Commons debate.

The job of an MP includes speaking up on behalf of those who do not have a voice and to an audience such as that available to an MP; to influence those who can bring about change - on behalf of a consituency. And that constituency can be their own or as in this case that constituency wanting a women's TdF reinstated.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Since when does ANYONE, male or female, have a RIGHT to a Tour de France?

What a load of absolute nonsense. The Tour de France is not a right.

Having the vote is a right, free medical care is a right, education is a right, the Tour de France? Behave yourself!!

Having a vote never used to be a right - it took a long time for the ordinary man to have a vote - and longer for the women of the UK - ordinary or otherwise.

In truth though - the bottom line is that if women want a TdF race why don't they just go and try and arrange one - albeit that that would be a lot harder than riding piggy back on the main Tour. Is anyone stopping them? If the French national or local government turned round and said NO - then you might have a case for claiming discrimination.

 

[ger147]

I have no issue with a women's Tour de France at all, as you say let them go ahead and organise one if they can. It would be even better if they could have a Men's and Women's TdF running side by side but that is impossible due to current ICF regulations.

But I do have an issue with Harriet telling the organisers of the existing Tour de France that they should be organising one for women that has proven to be financially not viable over the past 20 years or so, to the point where any attempt to put one on was abandoned a few years ago. Especially as she stood by and watched 3 planned UK stages of the 2009 women's race fall through due to lack of funds and didn't step in to help when she was in a position to do so at the time.

Hypocrisy of the highest order and nowt to do with equality or women's rights IMHO from the lady in question.

 

[Birchy]

Well actually you can. And if the business can't financially manage to do it then it goes out of business. I know of businesses that fold because they can't afford to bring their premises up to scratch to meet Fire Regs. That doesn't mean you don't require them to meet the Fire Regs.

The TdF would not go bust. If they really want to hold a women's race they could. Cost etc is a smokescreen - a diversionary tactic. The teams, sponsors and broadcasters would plough money into the TdF if there was a risk of it going bust. All it requires is for the TdF to decide that actually they should have a women's race - and they'll make it happen.

And HH doesn't have to be ar**d about cycling - but if she is ar**d about women's rights then she will promote the cause of those women who do care about a women's TdF - and there seems to be lots of them. Why does she actually have to care about the event for her to support the cause? She doesn't - it's the principle she's advocating - and if that is her agenda - then good - more strength to her elbow.

Is this a wind up? Fire regs is a different thing altogether and you know it, thats required for safety. Making a company sell something they dont already sell is totally different. Just like nobody can force muirfield to admit lady members nobody can force the tour de france to put a new race on for ladies.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Oooh I'm looking forwards to the next election and the debates that will rage on this forum. Well I say looking forwards to, more, I am dreading it and will probably put my fist through my screen in anger and then weary resignation....

 

[MegaSteve]

Which would mean that mosty MPs needn't open their mouths in a Commons debate.

The job of an MP includes speaking up on behalf of those who do not have a voice and to an audience such as that available to an MP; to influence those who can bring about change - on behalf of a consituency. And that constituency can be their own or as in this case that constituency wanting a women's TdF reinstated.

The 'job in hand' for me is seeing that there is sufficient 'affordable' homes, you can get to see a GP in 24hrs, that our streets are safe and 'our' services are properly funded... Once they've completed these 'simple' tasks then they can turn their attention to secondary quests like getting a TdF for girls....

 

[Hacker Khan]

The 'job in hand' for me is seeing that there is sufficient 'affordable' homes, you can get to see a GP in 24hrs, that our streets are safe and 'our' services are properly funded...

I suspect you've got a long wait then. So I'd suggest not getting too angry that none of these has happened as you will end up being a very angry young man.

 

[Birchy]

Oooh I'm looking forwards to the next election and the debates that will rage on this forum. Well I say looking forwards to, more, I am dreading it and will probably put my fist through my screen in anger and then weary resignation....

Followed by you trotting out the Daily mail line again. Yeah we get it.

YAWN.

 

[MegaSteve]

I suspect you've got a long wait then. So I'd suggest not getting too angry that none of these has happened as you will end up being a very angry young man.

HK Nothing I'd like better than to be an angry young man again ...

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Is this a wind up? Fire regs is a different thing altogether and you know it, thats required for safety. Making a company sell something they dont already sell is totally different. Just like nobody can force muirfield to admit lady members nobody can force the tour de france to put a new race on for ladies.

I'm not saying that you CAN demand the TdF stages a woman's race - I'm saying that - like a business having to upgrade their premises to meet Fire Regs - if they had to, a way would be found. The fact that they don't and don't have to, is IMO simply a lack of will to do so. And maybe HH is suggesting that the TdF should make a bit more effort to stage one. By cancelling it they have indicated that a women's race is less important (which in the historical scheme of things it certainly is) - but nevertheless to many women it IS important - and may be more so in the future - if it existed.

That's all.

And you think that by raising this issue HH is ignoring or distracted from her responsibilities on the 'important' stuff you mention. I don't really think one statement makes that much difference on her work on these otehr issues - but it's an easy thing to suggest of an MP you may not luck - wasting time on frivolous stuff that doesn't affect you.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Of course not, but imagine the next parliament only had 20% men; you wouldn't be happy!

Fairway Dodger, I listed on here in another thread a number of things about great Britain that I felt needed attention and that MP's of either sex generally failed to address, NHS tourism, corporate tax dodges and illegal immigration to name but three. If having only 20% men in the parliament meant these and others got addressed then you're right, I wouldn't be happy; I'd be absolutely delighted. I'd be that delighted that I would actually campaign for it if that is what would happen. But I think hell will freeze over before an increased proportion of female MP's will make any difference to what is actually achieved in parliament.

 

[Blue in Munich]

The 'job in hand' for me is seeing that there is sufficient 'affordable' homes, you can get to see a GP in 24hrs, that our streets are safe and 'our' services are properly funded... Once they've completed these 'simple' tasks then they can turn their attention to secondary quests like getting a TdF for girls....

Exactly.