Handicap manipulation - how to address

[PaulMdj]

I've been playing for over 50 years in OZ and England and have never seen or heard of a Player having their handicap reduced by a committee, just a fact.

We can all report the single figure golfer winning, but overall how often ? when you look at someone who has put a lot of work into improving, is he being rewarded accordingly ?

What about the mid-handicapper who puts in just as much work to improve but wins nowt?

Hardest working Golfer at our place is a lad off +1, his energy and commitment to golf is second to none, best player in the Club is also off +2, never lifts a golf club Nov-Mar every year, may have a practise putt before a round and has won Club Championship 6 times out of last 8 years.

 

[jim8flog]

I've been playing for over 50 years in OZ and England and have never seen or heard of a Player having their handicap reduced by a committee, just a fact.

We can all report the single figure golfer winning, but overall how often ? when you look at someone who has put a lot of work into improving, is he being rewarded accordingly ?

Having been on a handicap committee for quite a few years I can say we have reduced the handicaps of quite a few. One was a cut by 5
He was regularly returning scores of 42 - 45 points in swindles but would never put in cards for handicap purposes.

 

[doublebogey7]

I've been playing for over 50 years in OZ and England and have never seen or heard of a Player having their handicap reduced by a committee, just a fact.

We can all report the single figure golfer winning, but overall how often ? when you look at someone who has put a lot of work into improving, is he being rewarded accordingly ?

Then you need to either change clubs or lobby to change your handicap committee. I have been on handicap committee's at 2 different clubs over the last 15 years, every year we have adjusted the handicaps of between half a dozen and 20 players.

It is not always the hardest workers that have the lowest handicap, we have a number of + handicaps at my club, the least hard worker amongst them is the best player and has won multipler club champs over the last 10 years.

 

[AussieKB]

Was a member of two clubs in England, Sussex and Suffolk, played over 100 courses in Open's etc, also have been a member of three clubs in OZ plus played in a Heap of Opens pro Am's etc, know loads of people from different clubs and think I am pretty clue y to what is going on......but still waiting to hear or see someone being cut for manipulation of their handicap....

I am a sandbagger according to some, played off 4 today at the age 72, 73 next month......but I still see high 40's winning events only for that person to turn up a month later on the same handicap.

Great to hear that you have witnessed people being cut....but I have not seen it, you can play in a competition here everyday of the week for the entire year, so your handicap can be very easily manipulated.

 

[jim8flog]

Just to add I remember (not that many years ago) a list was put up on the notice board of all players whose handicaps had changed following the annual review and all players were required to check the list to see if they were affected.

 

[clubchamp98]

That is very strange. Many, if not most clubs, will increase or decrease a few golfers in a year, I am surprised you have never seen or heard of it. It’s not the sort of thing that is posted on notice boards but obviously the player should be advised in advance.

It’s not how often single figure golfers win or are in the prizes, it is if the distribution of prizes is highly skewed to particular groups based on the proportion of them in the comp.
As stated earlier there are many things that competition organisers can do to ensure that prize winners don’t disproportionately favour a particular section of entrants. If they are not doing this then they aren’t doing their job.

Just on the last bit.
It’s not a job for a lot of comittiees they are volunteers and range from very good to very bad.

 

[D-S]

Just on the last bit.
It’s not a job for a lot of comittiees they are volunteers and range from very good to very bad.

By job I didn’t,of course, mean paid employment, a lot of club (and County) golf is run by volunteers, That doesn’t mean that it isn’t their role and raison d’être to provide a sensible balanced competitive environment and a calendar that makes competitive golf attractive to a range of abilities.
Many, many clubs do this up and down the country, it doesn’t require extra work, just an understanding of who is winning prizes in the competitions they run and adapting accordingly ensuring as much equity as possible.
You are perfectly correct that the range of knowledge, interest, dedication and openness to change varies enormously but it doesn’t mean that it can’t be done.

 

[rosecott]

Just to add I remember (not that many years ago) a list was put up on the notice board of all players whose handicaps had changed following the annual review and all players were required to check the list to see if they were affected.

There is still a requirement to make any player aware of any change on review.

 

[jim8flog]

There is still a requirement to make any player aware of any change on review.

totally aware of that. It is just the method that has changed.

 

[Swango1980]

Was a member of two clubs in England, Sussex and Suffolk, played over 100 courses in Open's etc, also have been a member of three clubs in OZ plus played in a Heap of Opens pro Am's etc, know loads of people from different clubs and think I am pretty clue y to what is going on......but still waiting to hear or see someone being cut for manipulation of their handicap....

I am a sandbagger according to some, played off 4 today at the age 72, 73 next month......but I still see high 40's winning events only for that person to turn up a month later on the same handicap.

Great to hear that you have witnessed people being cut....but I have not seen it, you can play in a competition here everyday of the week for the entire year, so your handicap can be very easily manipulated.

It doesn't matter how many Opens or courses you've played. Unless you make a point of contacting the handicap committee at every single Open venue and course you play, and ask them how often they adjust the handicaps of members at their club. And I doubt anybody asks that question, why would they?

And as for the courses you've been a member of: Perhaps they have poor handicap committees that don't review handicaps of their members. Or, perhaps they do adjust handocaps, but you don't find out about it because you are not involved in the process, and they don't feel the need to run everything by you? You'd only find out if they adjusted your handicap, or perhaps a mate of yours.

The only "fact" you stated was that YOU have not seen or heard of a player having their handicap reduced by a Committee. But, clearly, that is not a fact in terms of reality, as several others have described how they are aware that is occurs frequently.

 

[D-S]

I've been playing for over 50 years in OZ and England and have never seen or heard of a Player having their handicap reduced by a committee, just a fact.

We can all report the single figure golfer winning, but overall how often ? when you look at someone who has put a lot of work into improving, is he being rewarded accordingly ?

I note you mention that you have not seen this in the last 50 years. Under previous handicap systems arbitrary, some might say unfair, handicap cuts were very prevalent. Perhaps the only rule number of handicapping or golf that anyone was aware of was the old 'Rule 19' that was wielded by overly authoritarian committees sometimes on a whim.

 

[SteveJay]

Having been on a handicap committee for quite a few years I can say we have reduced the handicaps of quite a few. One was a cut by 5
He was regularly returning scores of 42 - 45 points in swindles but would never put in cards for handicap purposes.

How was the handicap commiitee made aware of those swindle scores? At my club, and my previous one, such scores are just kept by the organisers in a book or via a whatsapp group so I doubt that any officials would know, unless they happened to play in that swindle/roll up.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

How was the handicap commiitee made aware of those swindle scores? At my club, and my previous one, such scores are just kept by the organisers in a book or via a whatsapp group so I doubt that any officials would know, unless they happened to play in that swindle/roll up.

Suspect someone was telling them

 

[jim8flog]

How was the handicap commiitee made aware of those swindle scores? At my club, and my previous one, such scores are just kept by the organisers in a book or via a whatsapp group so I doubt that any officials would know, unless they happened to play in that swindle/roll up.

The organisers of two of the swindles kept records of his scores. One of the swindles is organised by me and I play in the other.
A letter of complaint was then submitted by me to the handicap committee ( I was also on that committee) for a review under Rule 4.4.

 

[AussieKB]

The organisers of two of the swindles kept records of his scores. One of the swindles is organised by me and I play in the other.
A letter of complaint was then submitted by me to the handicap committee ( I was also on that committee) for a review under Rule 4.4.

Am sure you are on his Xmas card list.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

The organisers of two of the swindles kept records of his scores. One of the swindles is organised by me and I play in the other.
A letter of complaint was then submitted by me to the handicap committee ( I was also on that committee) for a review under Rule 4.4.

So you run the swindle and complained about I’m assuming a friend of sorts, as you sound like you often play together in the same swindle, submitted a letter to the handicap committee you’re on and got the guy cut because you seemingly didn’t like him winning or scoring decent points! Was he regularly winning club comps as that would have brought about the cut naturally surely!

Imo that doesn’t show you in a very good light, it seems a little bitter! Did you have the decency to tell the guy it was you who wrote in about him or was it clandestine bitterness to get him cut.

People in clubs across the country are so petty about handicaps because they’re not winning that’s a general statement not a personal one btw.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

The organisers of two of the swindles kept records of his scores. One of the swindles is organised by me and I play in the other.
A letter of complaint was then submitted by me to the handicap committee ( I was also on that committee) for a review under Rule 4.4.

So you wrote a letter complaining about someone’s social scores and they reviewed his HC based on social scores



How many comps did he win , what were his scores in comps

Or was it just the swindle you didn’t like him winning

 

[Neilds]

The organisers of two of the swindles kept records of his scores. One of the swindles is organised by me and I play in the other.
A letter of complaint was then submitted by me to the handicap committee ( I was also on that committee) for a review under Rule 4.4.

Did the swindle not have it's own rules to cut his swindle handicap?

 

[AussieKB]

And sat on the committee

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Hang on a minute. Can't believe the pile on here. People complain when someone isn't putting in comp scores, does well in informal comps. I'm assuming, always dangerous, that the example was a repeat offender and the genuine h/c bearing little relevance to the one they held. If this happens regularly then what Jim did was correct, surely .

Should people just grumble and do nothing? If it's obvious, surely this action was correct