Handicap manipulation - how to address

[wjemather]

Genuine question.......has anyone actually reported someone in this way?
How did they go about it, what evidence did they submit, what was the reaction from others? Were they labelled as a grass or a moaner?

Other than a (modest?) adjustment to someone's handicap, what can the club do, as they can't force players to put in GP cards.

Yes, they have. I've probably seen half a dozen referred queries through our county; some where there was found to be an issue, and some where there was not.
How to raise an issue is largely case dependent but an informal discussion with the handicap committee would be a good start. The best evidence is always scores from rounds that are not being submitted if they are consistently significantly better than those that are (or than handicap); this includes scores from formats that are not acceptable for handicapping. Any report should be treated as confidential, so no-one is labeled as anything.

The handicap committee has many actions available to them, including adjustments (larger adjustments need county approval), freezing a handicap, and withdrawing a handicap. Any of these measures can applied indefinitely, with the latter two often tied to a requirement to submit scores until the committee is satisfied that the handicap record is an accurate reflection of ability and/or the player understands and complies with their responsibilities under the Rules of Handicapping. Clubs are also able to set terms of competition to require a number of scores, suspend players from their own competitions, or suspend/terminate membership in extreme cases.

 

[D-S]

But what exactly is the incentive to improve?

In my club there are lots of guys who rarely put in cards and have inflated handicaps. they win or pick up prizes through the season, so what is the incentive for them to reduce their handicap (as I have done!) and lose the ability to win as regulalry, or even at all.

I have played competitive sport all my life so want to play the best I can and had the ambition to achieve single figures, which I did at age 61 having played golf since I was 38. My sporting background makes me uncomfortable when the best players in my club very rarely feature in the competition prizes, other than the very few where gross prizes are in place.

In addition to Wjem’s points I would also suggest that the club looks to introduce more gross prizes in comps, also has divisions which mean that the better players are competing with those of similar ability and thinks about having either scratch or low handicappers knockouts (singles and/or 4somes or 4BB). This way ‘the best players in the club’ may well have a better competitive environment. All these things can and are done by Handicap & Competition Committees up and down the country, they should be looking to provide good competitions for all levels in the club - this is exactly their job.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

In addition to Wjem’s points I would also suggest that the club looks to introduce more gross prizes in comps, also has divisions which mean that the better players are competing with those of similar ability and thinks about having either scratch or low handicappers knockouts (singles and/or 4somes or 4BB). This way ‘the best players in the club’ may well have a better competitive environment. All these things can and are done by Handicap & Competition Committees up and down the country, they should be looking to provide good competitions for all levels in the club - this is exactly their job.

When it comes to gross prizes the reaction is always the same

“Only people that should pay to enter for a gross prize is the ones that can win it”

“don’t want to pay money to enter the gross prize”

“The gross prize shouldn’t come out of the competition entry fee because not everyone can win it”

Etc etc etc

 

[rulie]

When it comes to gross prizes the reaction is always the same

“Only people that should pay to enter for a gross prize is the ones that can win it”

“don’t want to pay money to enter the gross prize”

“The gross prize shouldn’t come out of the competition entry fee because not everyone can win it”

Etc etc etc

TDB (too darn bad)
Maybe the whiners don't enter anyway?

 

[D-S]

When it comes to gross prizes the reaction is always the same

“Only people that should pay to enter for a gross prize is the ones that can win it”

“don’t want to pay money to enter the gross prize”

“The gross prize shouldn’t come out of the competition entry fee because not everyone can win it”

Etc etc etc

It’s entirely down to the Competitions Committee, they are in charge of the terms of the competitions and the awarding of prizes. It is their job to create a good competitive environment for abilities. If they are not fit for purpose ,just like other areas of a members club, then it is up to the membership to change it - or for the disgruntled members clubs to move clubs if it doesn’t suit.

It would be sensible for the supposedly disadvantaged members to produce the figures and results which show that they are significantly under represented in the attainment of prizes and winnings in the current environment as this would be the best way of convincing the committee of the unfairness of their current regime.

 

[Neilds]

2 weeks ago, at our weekly winter roll up (range of handicaps up to 30+) all 4 players in the top 4 prize winning positions were single handicaps. The following week, our assistant pro (+4.5, playing handicap off yellows is -7) came in the prizes with 36 points. No excuse for low handicaps to moan they never win anything in handicap competitions

 

[Arthur Wedge]

It’s entirely down to the Competitions Committee, they are in charge of the terms of the competitions and the awarding of prizes. It is their job to create a good competitive environment for abilities. If they are not fit for purpose ,just like other areas of a members club, then it is up to the membership to change it - or for the disgruntled members clubs to move clubs if it doesn’t suit.

It would be sensible for the supposedly disadvantaged members to produce the figures and results which show that they are significantly under represented in the attainment of prizes and winnings in the current environment as this would be the best way of convincing the committee of the unfairness of their current regime.

You do understand we are dealing with human beings and multiple different opinions and with there very rarely being a right answer

Just read through here and see the reactions when gross prizes are talked about

 

[D-S]

You do understand we are dealing with human beings and multiple different opinions and with there very rarely being a right answer

Just read through here and see the reactions when gross prizes are talked about

Oddly enough, yes I do realise that humans are involved and that there are many and varied views and opinions. However this doesn’t mean that the only answer is to say it’s all unfair and it’s all because of the system.
There are many and various ways of making things are more equitable for all, it just takes a bit of sensible research, common sense and well made arguments as well as an enlightened committee and club.

 

[rulie]

Oddly enough, yes I do realise that humans are involved and that there are many and varied views and opinions. However this doesn’t mean that the only answer is to say it’s all unfair and it’s all because of the system.
There are many and various ways of making things are more equitable for all, it just takes a bit of sensible research, common sense and well made arguments as well as an enlightened committee and club.

Facts and data kill arguments! But some people just like to complain and argue.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Oddly enough, yes I do realise that humans are involved and that there are many and varied views and opinions. However this doesn’t mean that the only answer is to say it’s all unfair and it’s all because of the system.
There are many and various ways of making things are more equitable for all, it just takes a bit of sensible research, common sense and well made arguments as well as an enlightened committee and club.

It always sounds easy but realistically it’s never that way

We could really only bring in a gross order of merit

And even some moaned that the prize money for the comp came from the comp entries

 

[D-S]

It always sounds easy but realistically it’s never that way

We could really only bring in a gross order of merit

And even some moaned that the prize money for the comp came from the comp entries

It is not necessarily easy but it is certainly doable as there are many, many clubs who do achieve this goal. They have modified their terms of competition, changed prize categories, they have introduced new or variants of existing competitions etc. etc.
As we are all are aware if golf clubs only always agreed with and caved in to the ill informed moaners there would be no improvements or strides forward in many, if not all aspects, of the club. If it is patently and obviously biased and unfair (and easily demonstrably so) then it should and can be rectified.

 

[rulie]

It is not necessarily easy but it is certainly doable as there are many, many clubs who do achieve this goal. They have modified their terms of competition, changed prize categories, they have introduced new or variants of existing competitions etc. etc.
As we are all are aware if golf clubs only always agreed with and caved in to the ill informed moaners there would be no improvements or strides forward in many, if not all aspects, of the club. If it is patently and obviously biased and unfair (and easily demonstrably so) then it should and can be rectified.

As is normal, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. And once that's done, there's always another squeaky wheel.

 

[AussieKB]

I've been playing for over 50 years in OZ and England and have never seen or heard of a Player having their handicap reduced by a committee, just a fact.

We can all report the single figure golfer winning, but overall how often ? when you look at someone who has put a lot of work into improving, is he being rewarded accordingly ?

 

[upsidedown]

I've been playing for over 50 years in OZ and England and have never seen or heard of a Player having their handicap reduced by a committee, just a fact.

We can all report the single figure golfer winning, but overall how often ? when you look at someone who has put a lot of work into improving, is he being rewarded accordingly ?

When relatively new to the game my first handicap was 16 at a municipal course in Telford
Moved to Patshull Park and did well in my first monthly medal ,didnt win but the committee cut me 4 shots to 12

 

[rulefan]

When relatively new to the game my first handicap was 16 at a municipal course in Telford
Moved to Patshull Park and did well in my first monthly medal ,didnt win but the committee cut me 4 shots to 12

Was that before or after WHS?

 

[Swango1980]

I've been playing for over 50 years in OZ and England and have never seen or heard of a Player having their handicap reduced by a committee, just a fact.

We can all report the single figure golfer winning, but overall how often ? when you look at someone who has put a lot of work into improving, is he being rewarded accordingly ?

Really? Not even at Annual Review?

I reduced quite a few handicaps when I was handicap sec, and I've seen other handicap secs do the same. In fact, some of the handicap secs before me went too far, and seemed to cut handicaps for the strangest of reasons. One guy had a methodology that if any player won a competition in the year, he'd cut them automatically.

 

[ger147]

One of my golf buddies was cut by 2 shots after winning a knockout tie and his next opponent was none other than the handicap secretary.

He went on to beat the handicap secretary in their tie and was promptly cut by another 2 shots!!

True story...

 

[upsidedown]

Was that before or after WHS?

Before

 

[Lord Tyrion]

My regular pp won a comp and was cut an additional 2 shots by the h/c committee last year.

Head of the committee was playing in a seniors matchplay against him 2 days later . We were all very happy when my friend beat him .

It happens.

@ger147 sneaky h/c committees. Good to see it doesn't always pay

 

[D-S]

I've been playing for over 50 years in OZ and England and have never seen or heard of a Player having their handicap reduced by a committee, just a fact.

We can all report the single figure golfer winning, but overall how often ? when you look at someone who has put a lot of work into improving, is he being rewarded accordingly ?

That is very strange. Many, if not most clubs, will increase or decrease a few golfers in a year, I am surprised you have never seen or heard of it. It’s not the sort of thing that is posted on notice boards but obviously the player should be advised in advance.

It’s not how often single figure golfers win or are in the prizes, it is if the distribution of prizes is highly skewed to particular groups based on the proportion of them in the comp.
As stated earlier there are many things that competition organisers can do to ensure that prize winners don’t disproportionately favour a particular section of entrants. If they are not doing this then they aren’t doing their job.