Handicap manipulation - how to address

[Slab]

I am not saying it is anything to do with computer process or the method of processing cards.
I am saying the very existance of GP scores lowers the barriers to fraudulent score entry, that was not possible under UHS. Under UHS, scores for handicap were, in the main, competition scores, typically requiring an entry fee, under at least some aegis of a club or committee, limited in opportunity, and came with the knowledge that results were published. GP scores can be submitted daily, for free, need not form part of any formal competition with any greater sense of need for compliance with the rules that might bring, and brings greater returns, and faster, in terms of handicap increase scope. i.e. the crime is now easier, and yields greater return. A gimme here, a favourable drop there, a nit-picky rules blind eye somewhere else, are more easily seen as victimless crime in a GP card scenario.

Lets for a moment say all you posted here is true and ppl are submitting scores lower/higher than their ability on the day
Lets also attach a % to the number of ‘dodgy’ cards (for illustration purposes only) we’ll say a massive 5% are dodgy

Are you advocating that the remaining 95% of handicap players should be denied the opportunity of submitting GPs cards to more accurately maintain our handicap?

 

[Colin L]

Went down point 3 yesterday, got point 2 back today, this sandbagger is doing well

Did your Course Handicap change?

 

[rulefan]

I am saying the very existance of GP scores lowers the barriers to fraudulent score entry, that was not possible under UHS.

GP scores (ie Supplementary Scores) were in existence before WHS was introduced.

 

[Dunesman]

GP scores (ie Supplementary Scores) were in existence before WHS was introduced.

A true statement in a way, but misleading in that it is comparing apples and oranges. Supplementary score were very much for exceptional rather than daily use as promoted for GP scores, and carried greater restrictions. They were a facility to cater for those not able or missing competition scores for various reasons. They were not designed to be the core means for most golfers to maintain a handicap. Supplementary scores always raised an eyebrow when notified - oh, why ? They were indeed 'supplementary' to competition scores which were the primary stream.

 

[AussieKB]

Did your Course Handicap change?

Yes got a shot back....am sitting right around the bubble

 

[AussieKB]

Stuffed up big time, I was dropping a flag so I was expecting to go out, playing off a 4 handicap today I was 7 over with 5 to play and then had two birdies on the way in for 5 over par and lost point one.

Am playing a veterans comp on Monday at an away course am now off 3......not happy.

 

[D-S]

Huge Shock! - WHS handicap system does a good job in reflecting a golfers current ability.

 

[AussieKB]

Huge Shock! - WHS handicap system does a good job in reflecting a golfers current ability.

U mean OZ HS.....no World about it..

 

[KenL]

Stuffed up big time, I was dropping a flag so I was expecting to go out, playing off a 4 handicap today I was 7 over with 5 to play and then had two birdies on the way in for 5 over par and lost point one.

Am playing a veterans comp on Monday at an away course am now off 3......not happy.

Boo hoo!

 

[Dunesman]

So things are moving behind the scenes, and R&A bypassing the previously only 4 yearly reviews and modifications to WHS. Update in March or April for the coming season.
From our good friends in Mauritious and NCG.
So hold your powder dry, and lets see if they really solve some of the issues - acknowledging there are problems and corrective actions needed is at least a positive step and to be applauded. A big move from the 'everything is fine, nothing to see here, no issue, we will review again in 3 years' mantra.

 

[D-S]

So things are moving behind the scenes, and R&A bypassing the previously only 4 yearly reviews and modifications to WHS. Update in March or April for the coming season.
From our good friends in Mauritious and NCG.
So hold your powder dry, and lets see if they really solve some of the issues - acknowledging there are problems and corrective actions needed is at least a positive step and to be applauded. A big move from the 'everything is fine, nothing to see here, no issue, we will review again in 3 years' mantra.

No - I have just attended an EG seminar in which they said that there are no known changes coming up. As previously communicated the next scheduled revisision is due in 2028 and at this stage there is no knowledge of what, if any, revisions may be made then.
The Mauritius change has already been rescinded.

 

[Dunesman]

No - I have just attended an EG seminar in which they said that there are no known changes coming up. As previously communicated the next scheduled revisision is due in 2028 and at this stage there is no knowledge of what, if any, revisions may be made then.
The Mauritius change has already been rescinded.

Not recinded. Paused temporarily pending revised rules due next month from the R&A. I see Todays Golfer also had this last week from Martin Slumbers, and a review meeting of stakeholders two weeks ago but no details at all given on what they might be.
It wont have gotten to EG level yet.

 

[Swango1980]

Not recinded. Paused temporarily pending revised rules due next month from the R&A. I see Todays Golfer also had this last week from Martin Slumbers, and a review meeting of stakeholders two weeks ago but no details at all given on what they might be.
It wont have gotten to EG level yet.

Not got to EG Level yet.

But got to the level of a person who posts on forums

 

[Dunesman]

Not got to EG Level yet.

But got to the level of a person who posts on forums

Yeh. They have to play it with a straight bat. Until the official communiqué, they wont even be acknowledging it openly, even if they know something is coming. They genuinely probably dont have any details anyway at this stage.

 

[D-S]

Not recinded. Paused temporarily pending revised rules due next month from the R&A. I see Todays Golfer also had this last week from Martin Slumbers, and a review meeting of stakeholders two weeks ago but no details at all given on what they might be.
It wont have gotten to EG level yet.

The EG level I heard from was in the lead handicapping management team and also someone who sat on the lead authority committee, so I would think they are a lot closer to the source and their information is a lot more up to date than Todays Golfer. So you are going to have to wait until 2028 to see if there will be any revisions.

 

[D-S]

They genuinely probably dont have any details anyway at this stage.

Because there are no details - if there were, they would be the ones helping formulate them.

 

[Swango1980]

Yeh. They have to play it with a straight bat. Until the official communiqué, they wont even be acknowledging it openly, even if they know something is coming. They genuinely probably dont have any details anyway at this stage.

EG have to play it with a straight bat, whilst there is already solid information in the public that something different is happening?

 

[Dunesman]

Something had to give. They could turn a blind eye, and maybe didnt really care too much, about clubs going off piste with their own solution, but an association going rogue meant they couldnt pretend all was fine and dandy any longer.

 

[D-S]

Something had to give. They could turn a blind eye, and maybe didnt really care too much, about clubs going off piste with their own solution, but an association going rogue meant they couldnt pretend all was fine and dandy any longer.

I hate to sound judgemental but that is just uninformed drivel.

 

[badgergm]

Something had to give. They could turn a blind eye, and maybe didnt really care too much, about clubs going off piste with their own solution, but an association going rogue meant they couldnt pretend all was fine and dandy any longer.

If I understand correctly then Golf Ireland have gone rogue for years, through the use of low HIs rather than HIs for inter club matches.