Handicap manipulation - how to address

[WorldHandicapSystem]

But the Comittiee checked all the cards.
Would your workload be up if you checked every GP card now?

The app and GP cards are a problem imo.

And other than making sure the cards had some numbers and signatures on them. The committee checking the cards did what exactly?

 

[bobmac]

It was certainly said, but was never actually the case.
What is true is that on average, low handicappers would play-to-handicap far more often than higher handicappers (1 in 3 or 4 rounds vs 1 in 6 or [a lot] more). Now, it's about the same (about 1 in 5).

I hope you're not speculating there.

It has. The Handicap Index now is a measure of demonstrated ability.

So on those normal days, people now play to their h/cap but on those rare days, 5,6 even 7 under h/cap would not be a surprise, especially with higher h/caps?

 

[nickjdavis]

I hope you're not speculating there.

So on those normal days, people now play to their h/cap but on those rare days, 5,6 even 7 under h/cap would not be a surprise, especially with higher h/caps?

I dont think he is.

i used to do scoring anlaysis on my clubs players and found much the same sort of pattern.

 

[wjemather]

I hope you're not speculating there.

No, it's not speculation.

 

[Thintowin]

It was certainly said, but was never actually the case.
What is true is that on average, low handicappers would play-to-handicap far more often than higher handicappers (1 in 3 or 4 rounds vs 1 in 5 or 6 or [a lot] more). Now, it's about the same (about 1 in 5).

I don't see how that is a good thing. It stands to reason that most better players are lower handicappers and less likely to make mistakes.

What WHS has done is to dumb down the game so we can appease those who can't be bothered to focus on getting to their potential.

It's not a sustainable position for the good of the game going forward. Remember, we are talking about something that was fine for decades.

Big risk, driven by money no doubt.

 

[Colin L]

What you've underlined is classic marketing speak. It sounds good but means nothing specific.

You are being tedious in the extreme. The phrase in question is specific.

Our ability is demonstrated by our scores, nothing else. They are the specific measurement of our ability but given the unpredictable nature of our game, they vary from round to round. Some way of establishing a single figure for a handicap from a range of scores has to be a core element of any handicapping system. In the WHS, it is done by an averaging process; in the UHS it was based on the premiss that a player should score within their buffer zone or better in one in three rounds.

 

[clubchamp98]

And other than making sure the cards had some numbers and signatures on them. The committee checking the cards did what exactly?

Well they were pre register in the pro shop and put in the box.

Now it’s anonymous and most don’t get checked because of the numbers.
EG just sent me an email saying “ more cards than ever put in”

 

[Colin L]

Well they were pre register in the pro shop and put in the box.

Now it’s anonymous and most don’t get checked.

It is just as easy, if not easier to check cards online in the central database.

 

[clubchamp98]

It is just as easy, if not easier to check cards in the central database.

Maybe but you must concede the amount has rocketed.

 

[Thintowin]

You are being tedious in the extreme. The phrase in question is specific.

Our ability is demonstrated by our scores, nothing else. They are the specific measurement of our ability but given the unpredictable nature of our game, they vary from round to round. Some way of establishing a single figure for a handicap from a range of scores has to be a core element of any handicapping system. In the WHS, it is done by an averaging process; in the UHS it was based on the premiss that a player should score within their buffer zone or better in one in three rounds.

You prove my point with that explanation. The same phrase was valid to UHS. So it is not the answer to what has changed.

 

[IanM]

It has. The Handicap Index now is a measure of demonstrated ability.

The accuracy of which varies depending on the frequency and volume of cards submitted!
(I'm steering clear of the manipulation dimension!)

Demonstrated is ok, but it depends when, and how often.

So, it's up to you and your diary!

 

[WorldHandicapSystem]

Well they were pre register in the pro shop and put in the box.

Now it’s anonymous and most don’t get checked because of the numbers.
EG just sent me an email saying “ more cards than ever put in”

Still, what did checking the cards do that can’t be done now.

It’s not anonymous now. You have to sign in. Yes you could start the round after the fact. It’s not that much work to check a tee time v when a round was started in the app.

 

[clubchamp98]

Still, what did checking the cards do that can’t be done now.

It’s not anonymous now. You have to sign in. Yes you could start the round after the fact. It’s not that much work to check a tee time v when a round was started in the app.

Does every GP card get checked?

 

[IanM]

Does every GP card get checked?

Of course not. It's not practical.

 

[WorldHandicapSystem]

Does every GP card get checked?

No. Why would it?

Not every comp card gets checked, and it never has. So it’s not anonymous now issue.

 

[clubchamp98]

Of course not. It's not practical.

Exactly that’s what I mean about anonymous.

In a sea of GP cards it’s very easy.

I’m not sure if all Supplementary cards were checked but they must have been to record the score manually.
The app has made it so much easier for golfers but also for manipulation!

 

[IanM]

Exactly that’s what I mean about anonymous.

In a sea of GP cards it’s very easy.

I’m not sure if all Supplementary cards were checked but they must have been to record the score manually.
The app has made it so much easier for golfers but also for manipulation!

But some folk draw attention to themselves. (We hope!)

It has made it easier, no denying that. Need clubs to be on top of it. Some are, some are not. Always needed that, but even more so with folk keying scores themselves in an open environment

 

[Colin L]

You prove my point with that explanation. The same phrase was valid to UHS. So it is not the answer to what has changed.

Gobbledegook. I haven't the faintest idea what your point was or what you now mean.

I think the best thing that can be done for this thread is to stop responding and leave you to sound off in the carpers' corner of your clubhouse lounge. Whether anyone else follows suit is up to them, but it would be a kindness.

 

[Thintowin]

Gobbledegook. I haven't the faintest idea what your point was or what you now mean.

I think the best thing that can be done for this thread is to stop responding and leave you to sound off in the carpers' corner of your clubhouse lounge. Whether anyone else follows suit is up to them, but it would be a kindness.

I thought you might have read the flow of messages up to the one you threw back at me. If you had you would have followed it easily enough.

 

[WorldHandicapSystem]

Gobbledegook. I haven't the faintest idea what your point was or what you now mean.

I think the best thing that can be done for this thread is to stop responding and leave you to sound off in the carpers' corner of your clubhouse lounge. Whether anyone else follows suit is up to them, but it would be a kindness.

I think it’s probably Buddha or his other alias, from the other thread on a windup.