Handicap Limits

[rulefan]

I have been asked by our committee to sound out how other clubs handle players with high handicaps who do not return many cards for handicap purposes (either comp or casual).
It seem a largish number of ladies have not returned cards since 2018 because 'they don't understand WHS' and/or 'don't know how to enter scores on their phones' and only play if they can find someone who will do the work for them. There are men in the same boat but they no longer enter competitions.

One suggestion is to simply have an upper limit in order to be able to enter (36 has been suggested).
An alternative is to require a minimum number of qualifying scores in a particular time frame (eg 15 in the last 12 months). Possibly specifying a minimum no of holes (ie 2 x 9 hole = 1 x 18)

Details of current practice under WHS appreciated.

 

[Colin L]

Setting an upper limit is contrary to the inclusive principle of the WHS and is indiscriminate. It could, for instance, penalise a player with a higher than 36 handicap index who does submit scores regularly and frequently. Why should he/she be denied entry to a competition? I assume they play the same sub as the lower handicapper. I'd definitely go for a minimum number of scores to have been submitted over the previous x months if you need to take action.

Currently my own club has no such requirement. This should have been reviewed after its first year but with the difficulties created by Covid, I didn't propose it. I'll certainly be suggesting it to be done at the end of this season.

 

[apj0524]

I lead the M&H team and we do two things, firstly it is a condition of entry that players must have submitted 3 competition scores in the six months prior to the competition start date and for Honours Board comps we have introduced two divisions 0 ~ 18 for the Honours Trophy and a salver for hcp 18 and above

 

[2blue]

We have a very great number of new starters so have introduced a requirement of 5 Comp Q scores in the last 12 months to win a Board Comp & play in the KOP Comps... it doesn't guarantee anything but does at least send the message that we are not just an open door.... well we hope so.

 

[Foxholer]

Anyone considered an education process?
Shouldn't be too difficult to produce a guide, then get an appropriate person within each group who might require it to explain how it works.
Seems to me that it's better to actively include groups rather than exclude them. Or at least offer to do so.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

'don't know how to enter scores on their phones'

Paper scorecards surely?

I can't speak for other clubs, but now that covid is over both clubs I'm a member at are back to paper scorecards and computer input in the club as before. I believe most other clubs in the area are doing the same. But even if not, surely a paper scorecard speaks and can be handed in signed by their playing partner

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Paper scorecards surely?

I can't speak for other clubs, but now that covid is over both clubs I'm a member at are back to paper scorecards and computer input in the club as before. I believe most other clubs in the area are doing the same. But even if not, surely a paper scorecard speaks and can be handed in signed by their playing partner

We too have reintroduced signing and handing in a physical card as well as computer input. No need to use a phone.

 

[upsidedown]

Just as an aside in yesterday's Seniors Board comp 8 players were DQ for no handicaps, course handicap and not signing cards out of 55 ?

 

[Deleted member 30522]

Just as an aside in yesterday's Seniors Board comp 8 players were DQ for no handicaps, course handicap and not signing cards out of 55 ?

At my home club we re-issued competition rules at start of the season by email, facebook, and on the website, re-emphasising only paper scorecards speak, and what is required for scoring (and DQ), and these are posted both beside the sweep sign up sheet, and score input computer. Still got a 10% DQ rate in the first comp of the year.

 

[rulefan]

Paper scorecards surely?

I can't speak for other clubs, but now that covid is over both clubs I'm a member at are back to paper scorecards and computer input in the club as before. I believe most other clubs in the area are doing the same. But even if not, surely a paper scorecard speaks and can be handed in signed by their playing partner

I don't think that is really the problem, more an excuse. By far the majority of club members are keen on app input.
I gather these players (ladies primarily) are pot hunting in Ladies' Foursomes and Fourballs with old caps. They seemingly used to put the old CONGU 3 cards in but that is no longer required.

 

[jim8flog]

For our opens and some major comps we are introducing 5 scores in set period of time prior to the comp as a condition of entry.

We have been back to scorecards must be handed in for quite some time now after the scores have been input via PSI or phone.

For our Seniors Club Championship we have always had a requirement that the player must have played in 3 Seniors comps in the same calendar year prior to the comp.

 

[Voyager EMH]

At our club we have always had an upper limit for mens comps.
This used to be 20 for board comps and 24 for weekday stablefords etc.
This was raised in the 1990s to 24 for board comps and 28 for weekday stablefords etc.
Higher handicaps have always been allowed to enter, but for competition purposes the maximums apply,
We have kept the same limits.
So it is the Playing Handicap or Strokes Received that still has a limit for competition purposes.
This may be in contradiction to WHS guidelines and a principal of inclusiveness, but we have kept our decades-long tradition for competitions that have an entry fee and prizes.
We may change, but I suspect that will not happen this year.

 

[sweaty sock]

I don't think that is really the problem, more an excuse. By far the majority of club members are keen on app input.
I gather these players (ladies primarily) are pot hunting in Ladies' Foursomes and Fourballs with old caps. They seemingly used to put the old CONGU 3 cards in but that is no longer required.

This is a problem thats going to get worse. In my view is this is why there are so few competitions in countries that have used this system for a long time....

 

[sweaty sock]

I dont think there is a solution other than that which has always been done. If the players have form of good scores in good events and terrible scores to form their handicap, they get a pga tour style informal ban, where you advise clubs not to accept their entry into events where they may be pot hunting...

 

[Old Skier]

For our opens and some major comps we are introducing 5 scores in set period of time prior to the comp as a condition of entry.

We have been back to scorecards must be handed in for quite some time now after the scores have been input via PSI or phone.

For our Seniors Club Championship we have always had a requirement that the player must have played in 3 Seniors comps in the same calendar year prior to the comp.

If they are genuinely pot hunting split the HI limits and have two or three divs with the board comp only counting for the lower HI.

 

[Old Skier]

I dont think there is a solution other than that which has always been done. If the players have form of good scores in good events and terrible scores to form their handicap, they get a pga tour style informal ban, where you advise clubs not to accept their entry into events where they may be pot hunting...

We have gone down this route several times in our county.

 

[wjemather]

I don't think that is really the problem, more an excuse. By far the majority of club members are keen on app input.
I gather these players (ladies primarily) are pot hunting in Ladies' Foursomes and Fourballs with old caps. They seemingly used to put the old CONGU 3 cards in but that is no longer required.

Since the real issue is cheating, the solution should not be to exclude those who are not cheating. The culprits need to be identified (seems like you've done that already) and reminded of their responsibilities under the rules of handicapping. If it is known that their handicaps do not reflect their ability, adjustments should be made; it may even be necessary to suspend their handicaps for a period of time (perhaps while new scores are submitted).

 

[jim8flog]

One thing to remember is that committees have the right to adjust handicaps in competitions if they believe a player a player has handicap which is not indicative of their ability.

7.2b Other Actions
The Committee in charge of a competition may reserve the right to:
Adjust the Playing Handicap of an entrant within the Terms of the Competition
where there is evidence that the player’s Handicap Index does not reflect their
demonstrated ability.

 

[sweaty sock]

One thing to remember is that committees have the right to adjust handicaps in competitions if they believe a player a player has handicap which is not indicative of their ability.

7.2b Other Actions
The Committee in charge of a competition may reserve the right to:
Adjust the Playing Handicap of an entrant within the Terms of the Competition
where there is evidence that the player’s Handicap Index does not reflect their
demonstrated ability.

Has this always been the case or is it new (since whs)? Committees in the past have seemed to be reluctant to enforce this in my experience?

 

[jim8flog]

Has this always been the case or is it new (since whs)? Committees in the past have seemed to be reluctant to enforce this in my experience?

It is one of the features of the WHS and was there from the off.