Good time for skill and nation building

[SocketRocket]

I see everyone has gone off on the "pay" part of "pay and conditions". It's more the latter causing doctors to leave the NHS. Chronic underfunding leading to low staffing levels forcing long hours, lack of flexibility and high stress levels. Particularly for more junior doctors. And that was before covid which has exacerbated all these issues.

BTW It's fun to have political threads back.

Underfunding!

 

[Mudball]

£18k for a starting nurse/paramedic/ police /fire is ridiculous compared to the role they do in society. An accountant starting at a Big 4 in the city or an investment bank trainee gets more. And they don’t kick down doors or save lives. If anything the pandemic has shown what roles are critical to a society.

If my daughter ever wanted to work in London as a nurse, the £5k yearly train won’t leave much. Soup and biscuits for Christmas

 

[SocketRocket]

£18k for a starting nurse/paramedic/ police /fire is ridiculous compared to the role they do in society. An accountant starting at a Big 4 in the city or an investment bank trainee gets more. And they don’t kick down doors or save lives. If anything the pandemic has shown what roles are critical to a society.

If my daughter ever wanted to work in London as a nurse, the £5k yearly train won’t leave much. Soup and biscuits for Christmas

London again.

 

[3offTheTee]

I see everyone has gone off on the "pay" part of "pay and conditions". It's more the latter causing doctors to leave the NHS. Chronic underfunding leading to low staffing levels forcing long hours, lack of flexibility and high stress levels. Particularly for more junior doctors. And that was before covid which has exacerbated all these issues.

BTW It's fun to have political threads back.

No political threads on here Caz. How very dare you!

 

[Hobbit]

The figure is the average not the starting wage. You would expect the average to have worked more than five years and progressed up the grading system, just like in most large state organisations.

A quick search of nurse vacancies posted up by Trusts paints a very different picture.

Having worked for the NHS, and recruited from the NHS, can I just say your appraisal is off the mark.

 

[SocketRocket]

A quick search of nurse vacancies posted up by Trusts paints a very different picture.

Having worked for the NHS, and recruited from the NHS, can I just say your appraisal is off the mark.

A newly qualified Nurse starts at band 5 @ £25,655

https://www.nurses.co.uk/careers-hub/nursing-pay-guide/#what-band-do-newly-qualified-nurses-start-at

 

[BiMGuy]

£18k for a starting nurse/paramedic/ police /fire is ridiculous compared to the role they do in society. An accountant starting at a Big 4 in the city or an investment bank trainee gets more. And they don’t kick down doors or save lives. If anything the pandemic has shown what roles are critical to a society.

If my daughter ever wanted to work in London as a nurse, the £5k yearly train won’t leave much. Soup and biscuits for Christmas

And the pay for a newly qualified accountant not at the big 4?

 

[bobmac]

South Dakota
Average RN Salary: $59,540 (£43,194)

Average Hourly: $28.63

South Dakota has the LOWEST pay rates for nurses in America

https://nurse.org/articles/highest-paying-states-for-registered-nurses/

 

[SocketRocket]

South Dakota
Average RN Salary: $59,540 (£43,194)

Average Hourly: $28.63

South Dakota has the LOWEST pay rates for nurses in America

https://nurse.org/articles/highest-paying-states-for-registered-nurses/

Should I trawl the internet for the salary of a Nurse in Kazakhstan.

 

[GB72]

And the pay for a newly qualified accountant not at the big 4?

Not quite the same but in the legal profession, if you look at at pay at a magic circle firm in London compared to the rest of the couuntry and regular sized firms then you are going to see a massive disparaity. Trainee solicitor and NQ solicitor salaries around most fo the country are on a parity with the figures that are being given for nursing etc. Look at the big London firms and you are looking 3 or more times that and with NQ salaries 2 or 3 times that being earned by solicitors with decades of experience in more provincial firms.

As for nursing pay in the states, I guess you have to take into account the way it is funded. If they want to increase nurses salaries, they increase the cost of healthcare and health insurance.

Those are just debating points. As it happens, I believe that nurses, the police and fire brigade deserve more

 

[PNWokingham]

Not quite the same but in the legal profession, if you look at at pay at a magic circle firm in London compared to the rest of the couuntry and regular sized firms then you are going to see a massive disparaity. Trainee solicitor and NQ solicitor salaries around most fo the country are on a parity with the figures that are being given for nursing etc. Look at the big London firms and you are looking 3 or more times that and with NQ salaries 2 or 3 times that being earned by solicitors with decades of experience in more provincial firms.

As for nursing pay in the states, I guess you have to take into account the way it is funded. If they want to increase nurses salaries, they increase the cost of healthcare and health insurance.

Those are just debating points. As it happens, I believe that nurses, the police and fire brigade deserve more

my mates daughter had several offers for trainee solicitor. She took one from a big american firm - not sure exactly what the salary was as a trainee but starting salary after articles when a qualifies solicitor was £120k!! I was gob smacked

 

[GB72]

my mates daughter had several offers for trainee solicitor. She took one from a big american firm - not sure exactly what the salary was as a trainee but starting salary after articles when a qualifies solicitor was £120k!! I was gob smacked

Yep, big firms in London are different gravy to what you earn on the high street

 

[Mudball]

my mates daughter had several offers for trainee solicitor. She took one from a big american firm - not sure exactly what the salary was as a trainee but starting salary after articles when a qualifies solicitor was £120k!! I was gob smacked

A friend's son went into investment banking to work on the oil trading desk. 2 year out of college, he was looking at 100k+ (incl bonus & commissions). It is not for everyone and he did not expect to work there beyond 30. newspapers would call it casino banking, but the boys work really really hard for their money. Now with some of those desks moving, fewer opportunities over the next few in that sector.

 

[toyboy54]

Don't you worry, London does alright on the spending front. We are still waiting on a dual carriageway for the main road to Scotland up here ?

What's going on then?? Why the delay??
Has whatsisname down in London been misleading you in some way re infrastructure-surely not!!..No, you must have misheard or misunderstood-after all,,he's v.v. busy

 

[Mudball]

Someone called Darren Grimes came up with a tweet to hire more U.K. HGV drivers or similar. Got a bit of sting from someone else for proposing too simplistic a view on his understanding of the issue


Btw, I heard today that HGV drivers are payed by KM not by hours… so sitting at ports delays means no money..

(Beware: the guy uses the B-word one too many times)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1430629012653674496

 

[backwoodsman]

Someone called Darren Grimes came up with a tweet to hire more U.K. HGV drivers or similar. Got a bit of sting from someone else for proposing too simplistic a view on his understanding of the issue


Btw, I heard today that HGV drivers are payed by KM not by hours… so sitting at ports delays means no money..

(Beware: the guy uses the B-word one too many times)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1430629012653674496

I think that's only true in the USA - and not the case over here. (At least, for employed drivers. Might be different if driving a lorry you own yourself).

 

[PJ87]

I've read in a few places that the dreaded b word has actually got these drivers better pay because of the shortage they are finally getting decent pay for their efforts as opposed to having sheer numbers available to allow big firms to pay lower wages
Don't mind actually paying more for things by a few pence here and there if it means those doing the hard work get a fair wage

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I've read in a few places that the dreaded b word has actually got these drivers better pay because of the shortage they are finally getting decent pay for their efforts as opposed to having sheer numbers available to allow big firms to pay lower wages
Don't mind actually paying more for things by a few pence here and there if it means those doing the hard work get a fair wage

I've spoken to haulage drivers at work and heard an hourly rate of £10.75 as common. This isn't long haul drivers but they are still driving big wagons. That's ridiculous for a skilled job. No wonder it hasn't been attractive and why rates need to go up in order to attract new drivers and retain existing ones.

 

[Mudball]

I've read in a few places that the dreaded b word has actually got these drivers better pay because of the shortage they are finally getting decent pay for their efforts as opposed to having sheer numbers available to allow big firms to pay lower wages
Don't mind actually paying more for things by a few pence here and there if it means those doing the hard work get a fair wage

I expect fair wages be paid. but it is not just HGV, it will be across the supply chain. As consumers it will push up prices (read inflation). The challenge is were pay rises for consumers have been supressed, this is a killer blow. If wages rise in line with inflation, then the effect is likely to cancel impact of price rises. IMO, the govt may end up doing a u-turn (pun intended) on the HGV visas once they realise that 'Christmas is cancelled' headlines start showing up.

Like someone pointed out earlier, I think the whole HGV is tip of iceberg. The situation in other industries is no different. If you look at the technology/IT industry, after years of offshoring tech, there is a golden opportunity where tech is moving back - esp in Digital services where you need the skill but not the scale of what places like India can give. Can we find enough home grown Digital or Cyber people? No marks for correctly guessing the answer. As an industry, I see hires in Poland, Spain, Estonia etc. UK is running short on supply and overheated market.

We never really had a focus on STEM subjects and therefore we dont have the base to deliver it. We are now waking up to this and trying to push STEM subjects, but the underfunding means we dont have teachers and facilities in the state sector for this. Similar situation in other high skill areas like biotech, robotics, nano-research.

I dont have the answer on how we turn back time. Nor is it the case of which Govt caused it. It is a question of what we are going to do about it.

 

[Mudball]

I've spoken to haulage drivers at work and heard an hourly rate of £10.75 as common. This isn't long haul drivers but they are still driving big wagons. That's ridiculous for a skilled job. No wonder it hasn't been attractive and why rates need to go up in order to attract new drivers and retain existing ones.

In a few years, when we have fully autonomous driving on HGV, the skills will need to change. I dont expect my grandchild (expected to be born after 2035) will learn to drive in the first place.