Good time for skill and nation building

[Mudball]

Looking at some of the headlines around shortage of staff across the country, it makes me wonder, if this is a good opportunity for the young ones to get into. Currently there seems to short supply in many skills from fruit picking to hospitality to supermarket stackers to HGV drivers. Increased demand is showing up in higher pay/bonus for people. Surely, for us as a nation, this is the time to see how we skill up. This will lead to invariable increase in cost of goods & services and downstream inflation (not always a bad thing).

While I see headlines about the army and prisoners being drafted in to drive ambulances or pick fruit, i don't see headlines about people putting themselves out there for these jobs. Where is the labour in this country? Not sure what the stats are on unemployment claims either.
Thoughts?

(Pl keep the thread non-political and free from point scoring)

 

[Neilds]

Lazy youngsters, too many benefits, firms sending work abroad... Think I have covered most of the arguments that will come up so we can close the thread now

 

[JamesR]

Wincanton are starting an apprenticeship scheme, with all the training etc for HGV drivers.

This is what's needed, some sort of provision of cash & training, to get people involved.

 

[Mudball]

Lol start a Brexit thread and hoping it doesn’t get political... good luck!

I am sure we can have a grown up conversation about this without invoking the B issue.

Lazy youngsters, too many benefits, firms sending work abroad... Think I have covered most of the arguments that will come up so we can close the thread now

Well if anything, we now know that not all work can happen remotely. We still need work to be done in this country.

 

[BiMGuy]

We absolutely mist embark on a program of upskilling people in this country. There are a few problems though.
Finding the right people to train.
Finding people to train them.
The time it takes for people to become useful.
Finding the right people to train.

It needs to start with the school curriculum being modernised to suit what the workplace of the future will look like.

 

[Hobbit]

When you’ve got people actively staying on benefits/universal credit, and DWP supporting them to do so, you have a failing system. And when those that have chosen to go down that path are whining that they want their benefits increasing, but have chosen to stay on that benefit, you have a failing of social responsibility.

We pay the taxes that pay those benefits. The govt might decide the mechanism and the value but we fund them. And some on here say it’s right…

We have lots of opportunities but it needs that state and those who desire to improve their lives to take up those opportunities.

What we dońt need is the leeches of society taking the very funding that could be better used on those that want to make an effort. Those that need it, no problem, and I’d even take a tax increase to better fund it. Those that chose benefits as a way of life, I wouldńt even pee on in a good fire.

 

[Rooter]

force people able, to work. My wife has a friend who is 'self employed' she is a beautician. She is a single mum of 2 and receives help in terms of financial benefits.

She works approx 8-10 hours a week, does nothing pro active to grow her business and is more than happy with it!! If she earned more, she would A. Have to work for it and B. Lose benefits. Why would she?!

Fundamentally, her business is not viable and she should be forced to find an actual job.

Thats my 2p. Can you tell, her story really annoys me, especially when I hear about her social life, holidays, aesthetic surgery which I am paying for....

 

[Mudball]

I empathise with the @Hobbit and @Rooter's examples and as a tax payer it bothers me. But equally this may be the 20% of the people giving the 80% a bad name. The red rags will always look to showcase the 20%. There will be enough hard working people who are looking for opportunities to do somehting. You can never get to a perfect world where everyone pulls their weight. So I think focussing the energy on the 80% is probably a better way than pulling the 20% apart.

I like the Wincanton example that @JamesR posted about. Hopefully it is now oversubscribed and they have to turn away people. As furlong comes to an end, I am hoping people start moving towards these jobs. I agree with Rooter in the sense that if the benefit of doing nothing is better than cost of doing something, then people have no incentive to work. Things like Universal Basic Income is not going to help such causes.

There are enough problems out there... we need more solutions..

 

[BiMGuy]

In the grand scheme of things. Fraudulent benefit claims are tiny fraction of spending.

Forcing people on benefits into work they are either not suited to, or don't want to do will not solve the skills gap we are facing.

Education is key. But that needs a radical overhaul in my opinion.

We also need to start paying people enough they don't need to claim benefits. That will unfortunately drive prices up. Are people willing to pay for that?

 

[SocketRocket]

In the grand scheme of things. Fraudulent benefit claims are tiny fraction of spending.

Forcing people on benefits into work they are either not suited to, or don't want to do will not solve the skills gap we are facing.

Education is key. But that needs a radical overhaul in my opinion.

We also need to start paying people enough they don't need to claim benefits. That will unfortunately drive prices up. Are people willing to pay for that?

Unemployment benefits should always be used as an assistance to get someone into work and not as a choice whether to work or not. I am not saying those people with severe disabilities should not be looked after but anyone able to do a job should do so. There are some who would be seen as unemployable due to their social attitudes but theres plenty of jobs need doing like cleaning up the environment that could be compulsory for the longer term fit unemployed. Restarting Remploy would also be good for many disabled people to have the opportunity to have a dignified job.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Never knew fruit picking was a skill.
I would have had a BSc1 by the age of 12 for soft fruit picking.
Plus an MA2 in tattie houkin'.

Everything has a proper price, Strawberries are now cheaper than 30 years ago.
Pay a proper wage for workers and charge a subsidy free price for the product.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I believe one of the big issues with hgv drivers is big delays in getting licences. Plenty want to do it, they just can't do the test. Our current courier driver is part passed but can't get a date for his final part. Once that's done he is off.

 

[Tashyboy]

Missis T worked in the NHS for a few decades. It really was a multi cultural industry. One of which successive governments championed. So far as saying that the NHS would collapse with its foreign workforce it now relies upon. Me personally I think it stinks. For a fair few generations we have not encouraged or invested in our young uns leaving school/ college/ Uni to go into the NHS. They did not want to pay for training preferring to go to the other side of the world to bring in nurses etc froom the Philippines etc, which meant in turn housing etc etc. How is that allowed to happen.
Same with HGV drivers. My Dad paid for my son to do his class 1 driving test/ licence. He passed it but struggled to get a job As he had no experience of class 1 but 3 years at class2. Eventually he went with an agency. He was interviewed for a job with the COOP as he had done agency work with them. When he mentioned that they told him point blank “ we cannot offer you a job as we would have to pay the agency £5K”. Now look at companies. They are desperate for drivers. He is earning some serious money, but this time last year it was rammel.
I am with the OP, this country needs a massive change in direction in encouraging its youth to go into skilled jobs.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Lets be honest, anyone now who doesnt have a degree, masters or whatever is looked down upon. Anybody doing a skilled manual job is looked down upon.
The internet has made everyone an expert who thinks every job bar theirs is a menial job and almost worthless.
Is it any wonder reality TV has given most youngsters their goals.

 

[Mudball]

The FT has a good article about the broken labour market.. here is the non-paywall site

https://archive.is/2021.08.24-07023...827e-4596-999d-e0618364dbe3?shareType=nongift

I like the conclusion >>
The labour shortages are a moment of reckoning. If we just use them to bicker about Brexit, we’ll drown out the real lessons in the noise.

 

[williamalex1]

I heard a rumour that Tesco are paying their delivery drivers £35 a hour, anyone know if is this true ?

 

[backwoodsman]

The FT has a good article about the broken labour market.. here is the non-paywall site

https://archive.is/2021.08.24-07023...827e-4596-999d-e0618364dbe3?shareType=nongift

I like the conclusion >>
The labour shortages are a moment of reckoning. If we just use them to bicker about Brexit, we’ll drown out the real lessons in the noise.

??

The problem is none of us want to pay a sustainable price for the stuff we buy. And hence the people at the sharp end of the production & delivery process arent a offered wages decent enough to be attractive to many. Which is precisely the problem with HGV drivers. Apparently we're about 100k drivers short. Brexit accounts for about 14k, and if I recall right, Covid delays account for about another 10k. The rest is down to the wages not being worth the general crappiness of the hours & conditions involved in the job.

 

[pauljames87]

I'm a firm believer that we should as a nation push away from the university route of life just because it's the way.

Bring back more apprentices

So many skills to learn and jobs to cover

My mate and I were educated until GCSE then I decided I was bored of school I'd leave and go get apprenticeship , he stayed on to do a level then university etc

We both ended up with good jobs just different ways of doing things

I think university should only be if you truly need it for the job. Not just because you want the lifestyle or its a meaningless degree

Another example is my wife she has a degree in psychology.. doesn't use it .. just used the loan to go on holiday

 

[rudebhoy]

When I left school in the late 70s, getting a university place was based primarily on ability. Only 1 in 7 school leavers went to uni, and received a grant to do so. Governments were happy to make that investment in our brightest kids.

Now more than half of school leavers go to university. Instead of a grant, they are saddled with a debt of around 60k when they leave. A lot of the degrees are useless and those kids will end up going into the same lower paid jobs at 21 that my generation did at 16/17.

I can't help thinking that part of the rationale was to keep the dole queue figures down, but the net result of keeping kids at school until 18 then sending more than half of them to uni has been to starve the job market by removing a large number for 4 or 5 years. This gap was filled in the main by foreign workers, now we are stopping them coming over hence the current disastrous situation.

 

[Neilds]

When I left school in the late 70s, getting a university place was based primarily on ability. Only 1 in 7 school leavers went to uni, and received a grant to do so. Governments were happy to make that investment in our brightest kids.

Now more than half of school leavers go to university. Instead of a grant, they are saddled with a debt of around 60k when they leave. A lot of the degrees are useless and those kids will end up going into the same lower paid jobs at 21 that my generation did at 16/17.

I can't help thinking that part of the rationale was to keep the dole queue figures down, but the net result of keeping kids at school until 18 then sending more than half of them to uni has been to starve the job market by removing a large number for 4 or 5 years. This gap was filled in the main by foreign workers, now we are stopping them coming over hence the current disastrous situation.

RE the bit in bold - It is the taxpayer that is saddled with most of the student loan debt! A quick internet search to a reputable site suggests only 25% of loans are paid back in full.