HawkeyeMS
Ryder Cup Winner
To assume they will stay beyond 28 is a big assumption too. It's not an investment in the future, it gives them cheap golf now, that's it.
Golf subs for 2014
- Thread starter sweeneytoddd
- Start date
To assume they will stay beyond 28 is a big assumption too. It's not an investment in the future, it gives them cheap golf now, that's it.
HawkeyeMS
Ryder Cup Winner
It sounds dumb, but if they didn't do it, a lot of under 30s who were already members would have complained new members were getting cheaper subs than them. That's the way people work
andrew_mac
Club Champion
Golf England figures suggest otherwise.
Clubs need to attract younger members to be sustainable in the future and by time person reaches 28 they could have been at a a club for 10/15 years depending on when they joined as a junior so in for long term and should be for future. Double that same member's subs when they hit 21 and they will be gone in most cases.
Plus is there is an upword trajectory in the the intermediate rate through the 20s by time they reach 28 it is less much of a jump to full membership.
Totally agree with this, I don't think it's about the money why there not joining golf clubs. It's a period in their life where things are changing, going off to uni, starting a family, buying houses, moving to different areas, chasing that new job, there's to much going on in their life to worry about golf club member ship. Coupled with golf not being that cool for youngsters, this is why they come back, or even start playing later on in life.
As I said earlier I don't mind the discount up to 21 or even while their in full time education, but after that they should be on their own and pay their way.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Checked our rates and the discounts decrease from age 21 until 25 then go to full whack then until late 60's
But the difference isn't that massive at the end bad doesn't bother me as long as my own fees aren't effected too
Understand and can see the bigger picture and why certain ages get small discounts and can't see it changing much.
But the difference isn't that massive at the end bad doesn't bother me as long as my own fees aren't effected too
Understand and can see the bigger picture and why certain ages get small discounts and can't see it changing much.
nil1121
Head Pro
just had my 3 childrens subscription letter thro yesterday. not gone up but £500 each so pretty expensive !!
Whilst I agree with clubs looking to attract more members from different age ranges, I do think that having a reduced rate all the way up to 30 is stretching it too far.
Why not reduce the rate for all members?
I wonder how many in their mid to late 20's take up the offer of reduced fees AND also have their week's drinking holiday in Ibiza with their mates?
I afforded full fees and a joining fee and a mortgage and a family whilst on a relatively low wage in the late 70's/80's. If people care enough about their sport, and access to it, they'll find the fees.
Why not reduce the rate for all members?
I wonder how many in their mid to late 20's take up the offer of reduced fees AND also have their week's drinking holiday in Ibiza with their mates?
I afforded full fees and a joining fee and a mortgage and a family whilst on a relatively low wage in the late 70's/80's. If people care enough about their sport, and access to it, they'll find the fees.
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
Looks like your kids are exactly the people the game needs to keep, well done, do they kick your ass on the course yet?
And if you have to shell out one and a half grand a year to do that then I would suggest something is wrong. But no doubt some on this board will say something like you and them have to make choices, you and them have to take responsibility and if you can't afford it then tough.So they would be happy for the game to lose them until they can afford to pay upwards of 500 notes every year in their teens
HawkeyeMS
Ryder Cup Winner
Looks like your kids are exactly the people the game needs to keep, well done, do they kick your ass on the course yet?
But no doubt some on this board will say something like you and them have to make choices, you and them have to take responsibility and if you can't afford it then tough.So they would be happy for the game to lose them until they can afford to pay upwards of 500 notes every year in their teens
Junior membership is fine, junior memberships aren't cheap because the kids can't afford it, it's because the clubs know that the parents pay the fees and asking a parent to pay 2,3 or 4 full subscriptions will likely mean the parent doesn't join either.
HawkeyeMS
Ryder Cup Winner
We actually have a category now for 30 to 35 year olds. That didn't go down well with the full paying members I can tell you. I don't know what the rates are or what the take-up has been.
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
The 17-24 age bracket is the exact demographic my industry focuses on. Numbers of kids wanting to learn to drive are declining and the average age for passing the Test is now at the top end of that bracket.
Why?
Because they haven't got 2 penny's to rub together and neither have their parents.
Chances are, if they can't afford a life skill that can increase their chances of getting a job, they can't afford to join a club either - regardless of the offers.
I'm not convinced that there are large numbers of kids out there that want to play golf. Rightly or wrongly, Golf is seen as an older person's game. I had no thought of playing until I was 30, there was too much Footy or Cricket to be played.
That's not saying that there are not kids who want to play,obviously there are, but are these kids doing to play anyway? Are they the offspring of existing members/players?
You could drop the sub's for late teens/early 20's to next to nothing and I doubt numbers would increase massively because of the image and startup costs, especially if you have to add in lessons. Ours is now the only Club in Town that is cheap enough for the younger player. Even during the Summer hols you don't see many on the course.
A good friend of mine has a 12 year old daughter getting County coaching at one of the best clubs in the area. It costs him £95 a year for her to be a Junior member. Chances are his 7 year old son will do the same.
The club has a sliding scale of sub's but even with that, I doubt they will be able to afford memberships for both past 16. Now take a kid of the same age as Ellie but hasn't got a Dad who plays. Along with all the other activities, fuel bill increases, everything going up, where are they going to get enough spare cash to put their kid in the same position - unless they already have the means, in which case they're more likely to be able to do it in the first place - assuming the kid wants to ply an "Old Man's" game....
Why?
Because they haven't got 2 penny's to rub together and neither have their parents.
Chances are, if they can't afford a life skill that can increase their chances of getting a job, they can't afford to join a club either - regardless of the offers.
I'm not convinced that there are large numbers of kids out there that want to play golf. Rightly or wrongly, Golf is seen as an older person's game. I had no thought of playing until I was 30, there was too much Footy or Cricket to be played.
That's not saying that there are not kids who want to play,obviously there are, but are these kids doing to play anyway? Are they the offspring of existing members/players?
You could drop the sub's for late teens/early 20's to next to nothing and I doubt numbers would increase massively because of the image and startup costs, especially if you have to add in lessons. Ours is now the only Club in Town that is cheap enough for the younger player. Even during the Summer hols you don't see many on the course.
A good friend of mine has a 12 year old daughter getting County coaching at one of the best clubs in the area. It costs him £95 a year for her to be a Junior member. Chances are his 7 year old son will do the same.
The club has a sliding scale of sub's but even with that, I doubt they will be able to afford memberships for both past 16. Now take a kid of the same age as Ellie but hasn't got a Dad who plays. Along with all the other activities, fuel bill increases, everything going up, where are they going to get enough spare cash to put their kid in the same position - unless they already have the means, in which case they're more likely to be able to do it in the first place - assuming the kid wants to ply an "Old Man's" game....
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Might be more sensible to target the 35-40 age group as in the context of family this is the age group whose children will be beyond toddler stage and hence able to breath. Talking blokes - this is the group you have a chance getting back to golf (especially if they quit when family came along). As far as earning is concerned many will have moved up the salary scale between ages of 25 and 35, and so may have a little money and some time to spend on their own leisure - having for 5-8 yrs been closely involved in the early years of their little 'uns - so NO time or money to spare.
But money and time will still be a bit tight and so we have to make membership attractive and consistent with the demands around the dad with a young family. And that might mean a different sort of flexible membership that some or indeed many members would find difficult to swallow.
Pre-30yrs old? Seems an obvious target group but I'm thinking guys and gals in the 25-30yr age group who might (re)join a golf club a likely to have life and work opportunities presented that make membership of a golf very secondary - certainly as a longer term commitment the sort of which clubs may well be looking for. If they are members certainly do what you can to keep them (by having stepped subs for instance - but don't bust a gut to get new 25-30yr olds to join - not a good investment for the club to make IMO.
btw - I joined a new club having had 8 yrs without being a member of a club (we moved area and kids were little), when my lad reached 11. I was mid-40s by then. My Mrs decided it would be a good for my lad (not me) to play golf and become a member of a golf club - and so she let me join as well. Our kids have now both gone through secondary school and are going through uni - so we've been stable in where we live. And I've now been a member 10yrs and have no thoughts of leaving. But by gawd it was expensive that first year and we couldn't really afford it. I almost certainly would not have joined my club back then if it hadn't been for my lad and Mrs! Just my personal experience and thoughts
But money and time will still be a bit tight and so we have to make membership attractive and consistent with the demands around the dad with a young family. And that might mean a different sort of flexible membership that some or indeed many members would find difficult to swallow.
Pre-30yrs old? Seems an obvious target group but I'm thinking guys and gals in the 25-30yr age group who might (re)join a golf club a likely to have life and work opportunities presented that make membership of a golf very secondary - certainly as a longer term commitment the sort of which clubs may well be looking for. If they are members certainly do what you can to keep them (by having stepped subs for instance - but don't bust a gut to get new 25-30yr olds to join - not a good investment for the club to make IMO.
btw - I joined a new club having had 8 yrs without being a member of a club (we moved area and kids were little), when my lad reached 11. I was mid-40s by then. My Mrs decided it would be a good for my lad (not me) to play golf and become a member of a golf club - and so she let me join as well. Our kids have now both gone through secondary school and are going through uni - so we've been stable in where we live. And I've now been a member 10yrs and have no thoughts of leaving. But by gawd it was expensive that first year and we couldn't really afford it. I almost certainly would not have joined my club back then if it hadn't been for my lad and Mrs! Just my personal experience and thoughts
bladeplayer
Money List Winner
But no doubt some on this board will say something like you and them have to make choices, you and them have to take responsibility and if you can't afford it then tough.So they would be happy for the game to lose them until they can afford to pay upwards of 500 notes every year in their teens
I may have missed someone saying that , apologies if so ,but i dont think anyone has problems with junior membership ..
No one obviosly reads any of my posts!
I made the point 5 pages ago that this whole thing about under 30's getting targeted and being the life blood and saviours of clubs, is a red herring.
I doubt clubs ever had lots of this age group as its just not drawn to playing golf at this time.
we let in about 30 odd under 30 members, we already have a student and junior rate. My clubs thinking was we needed guys to play in the medals and comps to bolster the numbers, i don't think hardly any have and are just using the place as cheap memberships and when they are out of the under 30 deal will just go for the next cheap offer local to them.
I'm all for supporting the youngsters who come up though the club and and normally stick with it, but its only a handfull.
I made the point 5 pages ago that this whole thing about under 30's getting targeted and being the life blood and saviours of clubs, is a red herring.
I doubt clubs ever had lots of this age group as its just not drawn to playing golf at this time.
we let in about 30 odd under 30 members, we already have a student and junior rate. My clubs thinking was we needed guys to play in the medals and comps to bolster the numbers, i don't think hardly any have and are just using the place as cheap memberships and when they are out of the under 30 deal will just go for the next cheap offer local to them.
I'm all for supporting the youngsters who come up though the club and and normally stick with it, but its only a handfull.
HawkeyeMS
Ryder Cup Winner
This I agree with, as I said earlier, you are likely to get more longevity from the 35 to 40 age group than the 25-30. If clubs are trying to attract long term members, this is where they should be looking IMHO.
HawkeyeMS
Ryder Cup Winner
I read it and I agree :thup:
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
I think this highlights the issue with the needs of the specific club versus the needs of the game in general. You are saying that most use it cheap membership and then go somewhere else and it has not had the intended effect of bolstering numbers in medals. So the club, and indeed you have argued that this scheme is not successful as not many play in medals, and questioning that if they are not to stick at one club, then is it worth supporting them.
But on the other hand there is a strong argument that getting people in at that age (or indeed any age) and just playing golf is good for the game in general. Yes they may not be playing medals and comps, but surely it is better for the game to have people playing the game at any club, rather than not playing. Wont your club pick up some of these transitory players from other clubs when their cheap deals run out? But of course it is then very difficult to balance the more short term needs of the club with the longer term needs of the game.
No idea if this happens but I'd see this an an area where the authorities running the game would help clubs out. It would also be nice that instead of paying the top players millions to appear in one tournament, some of that money is put into getting more people into the game. But I know that it does not work like that, mores the pity.
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I'm not sure this reducing fee's to certain age groups work at the lower and mid scales, especially in business terms.
Example;
20 existing members between 18-24 have their existing fee's reduced by £200 as the club looks to increase that age membership, net cost to the club £4k
The club has now got to find 4 full adult members to fill that gap, which is not what the reduction is for, or 7 new members between 25-30 at half the adult rate or another 14 members at 18-25 to break even at 1/3rd the adult fee's! The net cost to the club is no more gross revenue than before from subscriptions but, there is now more people on the course increasing costs of maintenance. OK, there may be a little more spent in the bar, but, I think that would be negligible in the grand scheme of things, especially the much younger bracket who are very seldom seen in the clubhouse.
Will it lock these younger people in and will they upgrade through the various subscription rates and be loyal to the club, or will they seek out better deals at the time when they hit an age that takes them into another bracket? If their parents are subsidising the fees in some way, can or could they afford to keep up with the subscriptions when they raise by more than 50% at certain age breakpoints and if they then have to fend for themselves, will they just leave?
I understanding ageing memberships and the need to find younger people but, I am of the attitude that if the course and facilities are good enough and offer something for all age groups and are not stuck in the dark ages so younger people feel welcome and not intimidated, then the subscriptions can be the same across the board with the exception of a Junior Membership which is >18.
Example;
20 existing members between 18-24 have their existing fee's reduced by £200 as the club looks to increase that age membership, net cost to the club £4k
The club has now got to find 4 full adult members to fill that gap, which is not what the reduction is for, or 7 new members between 25-30 at half the adult rate or another 14 members at 18-25 to break even at 1/3rd the adult fee's! The net cost to the club is no more gross revenue than before from subscriptions but, there is now more people on the course increasing costs of maintenance. OK, there may be a little more spent in the bar, but, I think that would be negligible in the grand scheme of things, especially the much younger bracket who are very seldom seen in the clubhouse.
Will it lock these younger people in and will they upgrade through the various subscription rates and be loyal to the club, or will they seek out better deals at the time when they hit an age that takes them into another bracket? If their parents are subsidising the fees in some way, can or could they afford to keep up with the subscriptions when they raise by more than 50% at certain age breakpoints and if they then have to fend for themselves, will they just leave?
I understanding ageing memberships and the need to find younger people but, I am of the attitude that if the course and facilities are good enough and offer something for all age groups and are not stuck in the dark ages so younger people feel welcome and not intimidated, then the subscriptions can be the same across the board with the exception of a Junior Membership which is >18.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Is this whole thing being blown a lite out of proportion ?
Look at your golf club and see how many members they actually have between the ages of 21-30 ?
At previous clubs it was very minimal - would be surprised if there was more than 10 members. Most of them were also country members at Uni.
Most of the membership was mid 30's upwards so the first time a reduction in fees happened was at age 65 - but even that was increased until age 70. With over 150 taking advantage of those reductions
Now at current club the reductions finish at 25 and below that there is a lot of juniors up to age 21 but not many between 21-25.
The biggest portion of membership is between 30 and 60 and we all pay full whack.
So is it possible that it's not really a major issue ?
Look at your golf club and see how many members they actually have between the ages of 21-30 ?
At previous clubs it was very minimal - would be surprised if there was more than 10 members. Most of them were also country members at Uni.
Most of the membership was mid 30's upwards so the first time a reduction in fees happened was at age 65 - but even that was increased until age 70. With over 150 taking advantage of those reductions
Now at current club the reductions finish at 25 and below that there is a lot of juniors up to age 21 but not many between 21-25.
The biggest portion of membership is between 30 and 60 and we all pay full whack.
So is it possible that it's not really a major issue ?
HawkeyeMS
Ryder Cup Winner
Or, as some are saying, that clubs are targeting the wrong audience? If you target the older age brackets you are likely to get a better uptake and longer memberships.
