Spuddy
Challenge Tour Pro
Russell Knox is ranked 58th.
What Now for Scottish Golf?
- Thread starter FairwayDodger
- Start date
Grant85
Head Pro
I'm not so sure Scottish Golf is actually all that bad in terms of golf club administration. They get a bad rep, but that is probably as much to do with perception and that everyone seems to like a moan.
However they seem to not be producing in terms of elite players or elite development. Two of the most successful Scottish golfers of the last decade or so (Russell Knox and Martin Laird) have actually gone to America and played there from a pretty young age. Difficult to make a case that they would have had successful golf careers by staying in Scotland.
It costs a LOT of money to take a decent young kid and make him a tour pro. In reality, that is only going to happen in Scotland if that kid has a well off parent who can spend a lot of money on coaching or they have a good golf coach in the family. And even then, probably given the lack of competition at a high enough level, they probably do not develop as well or as quickly as players in other countries.
For me, the issues in Scottish Golf are very similar to the issues the Lawn Tennis Association faced. An association that has a decent level of funding but doesn’t use their resources well enough, and probably has too many people happy enough to turn up to meetings, get their blazer on and talk about a few issues, but don’t actually have any experience in delivering; are not prepared to go and learn about how to deliver and are not prepared to get their hand dirty and do much in the way of heavy lifting.
Much like Scottish Golf, the LTA had very little in the way of tangible results. For years their best ‘result’ was Tim Henman – a journeyman who would ride the wave of Wimbledon euphoria every 12 months to play above himself. Rusedski wasn’t homegrown and the woman’s game was a national embarrassment. Year after year half a dozen ‘hopefuls’ would get byes into the 1st round of Wimbledon and year after year they would all to a man and woman, limp out in the 1st round. Then along came Andy Murray who was a bit different in that he hadn’t stuck to the LTA programme, but had moved to Barcelona where he became very good at a young age. Murray has been on record saying if he had stayed in the UK he wouldn’t have had the career he had and that the LTA actually ruined his older brothers chances of being an elite singles player.
Like the LTA, I think that probably Scottish Golf make a cardinal sin. When a guy gets into the programme, things come to him a bit too easily. They basically get a salary for a few years and are left to their own devices to go and make the most of it and learn how to play pro golf and hopefully have a right good week at Q school one autumn. The resources should be used differently. Working P/T, when you are learning how to be a pro golfer should be part of the process. It surely gives you that hunger that you don’t want to be serving coffees, or working in a shop. And it also doesn’t give you a chance to think ‘I’ve made it here’.
Ultimately Ireland is a model Scotland should be looking to follow. But they have one thing that is massively in their favour at present. Namely Rory McIlroy. A genuine world star who is exciting, engaging, charismatic and a very easy guy to support. And behind him, they still have 3 other major champions in the past 10 years (Harrington, McDowell, Clarke) all of whom are similarly engaging and easy to like.
Scotland has nothing like that. Sure, a few decent champions in Monty and Lawrie – but these aren’t guys with the charisma or personal appeal outside of the golf world. Similarly Knox and Laird are good pros, but not guys who anyone will know much about outside the hardcore golf fans. Ultimately the role of Scottish Golf in getting players into the game and encouraging talent to foster would be much easier with a couple of top, Scottish based players at the business end of some big tournaments. But currently, it feels like we are so far away from that.
So interest in the game is on the wane. The set up is failing young golfers and transferring basically no one into an elite player in their early 20s. And what do Scottish Golf do… put the fees up. Whether they have a grand plan or not, I’m not sure. It’s not exactly something they have marketed. And very difficult to get any credibility when they have gotten such poor results in the past decade.
However they seem to not be producing in terms of elite players or elite development. Two of the most successful Scottish golfers of the last decade or so (Russell Knox and Martin Laird) have actually gone to America and played there from a pretty young age. Difficult to make a case that they would have had successful golf careers by staying in Scotland.
It costs a LOT of money to take a decent young kid and make him a tour pro. In reality, that is only going to happen in Scotland if that kid has a well off parent who can spend a lot of money on coaching or they have a good golf coach in the family. And even then, probably given the lack of competition at a high enough level, they probably do not develop as well or as quickly as players in other countries.
For me, the issues in Scottish Golf are very similar to the issues the Lawn Tennis Association faced. An association that has a decent level of funding but doesn’t use their resources well enough, and probably has too many people happy enough to turn up to meetings, get their blazer on and talk about a few issues, but don’t actually have any experience in delivering; are not prepared to go and learn about how to deliver and are not prepared to get their hand dirty and do much in the way of heavy lifting.
Much like Scottish Golf, the LTA had very little in the way of tangible results. For years their best ‘result’ was Tim Henman – a journeyman who would ride the wave of Wimbledon euphoria every 12 months to play above himself. Rusedski wasn’t homegrown and the woman’s game was a national embarrassment. Year after year half a dozen ‘hopefuls’ would get byes into the 1st round of Wimbledon and year after year they would all to a man and woman, limp out in the 1st round. Then along came Andy Murray who was a bit different in that he hadn’t stuck to the LTA programme, but had moved to Barcelona where he became very good at a young age. Murray has been on record saying if he had stayed in the UK he wouldn’t have had the career he had and that the LTA actually ruined his older brothers chances of being an elite singles player.
Like the LTA, I think that probably Scottish Golf make a cardinal sin. When a guy gets into the programme, things come to him a bit too easily. They basically get a salary for a few years and are left to their own devices to go and make the most of it and learn how to play pro golf and hopefully have a right good week at Q school one autumn. The resources should be used differently. Working P/T, when you are learning how to be a pro golfer should be part of the process. It surely gives you that hunger that you don’t want to be serving coffees, or working in a shop. And it also doesn’t give you a chance to think ‘I’ve made it here’.
Ultimately Ireland is a model Scotland should be looking to follow. But they have one thing that is massively in their favour at present. Namely Rory McIlroy. A genuine world star who is exciting, engaging, charismatic and a very easy guy to support. And behind him, they still have 3 other major champions in the past 10 years (Harrington, McDowell, Clarke) all of whom are similarly engaging and easy to like.
Scotland has nothing like that. Sure, a few decent champions in Monty and Lawrie – but these aren’t guys with the charisma or personal appeal outside of the golf world. Similarly Knox and Laird are good pros, but not guys who anyone will know much about outside the hardcore golf fans. Ultimately the role of Scottish Golf in getting players into the game and encouraging talent to foster would be much easier with a couple of top, Scottish based players at the business end of some big tournaments. But currently, it feels like we are so far away from that.
So interest in the game is on the wane. The set up is failing young golfers and transferring basically no one into an elite player in their early 20s. And what do Scottish Golf do… put the fees up. Whether they have a grand plan or not, I’m not sure. It’s not exactly something they have marketed. And very difficult to get any credibility when they have gotten such poor results in the past decade.
Jacko_G
Blackballed
I appreciate you were "away" from the game for ten years but to say they get a bad press due to perception is utter tripe!
They have been incompetent, they have squandered money left right and centre, they have been bailed out on more than one occasion and always just expect the club golfer to continue to fund them.
They offer nothing other than lip service to clubs and counties hence why they've now stood up and said enough!
I had hoped that the "new" organisation would be more honest and transparent however that remains to be seen. I had hoped that they would recruit better and at least attempt to put people in place with credibility and a proven track record. Sadly the appointment of people like Claire Queen makes it look like it is just a case of jobs for the boys/girls once again. I hope she will prove my negative doubting wrong and if course I will give her time and the benefit of the doubt until she has been in the role for a period of time.
There are huge bridges to be mended and once again by asking for more funding they appear to be well wide of the mark on how they are viewed within the Scottish golf club scene.
They have been incompetent, they have squandered money left right and centre, they have been bailed out on more than one occasion and always just expect the club golfer to continue to fund them.
They offer nothing other than lip service to clubs and counties hence why they've now stood up and said enough!
I had hoped that the "new" organisation would be more honest and transparent however that remains to be seen. I had hoped that they would recruit better and at least attempt to put people in place with credibility and a proven track record. Sadly the appointment of people like Claire Queen makes it look like it is just a case of jobs for the boys/girls once again. I hope she will prove my negative doubting wrong and if course I will give her time and the benefit of the doubt until she has been in the role for a period of time.
There are huge bridges to be mended and once again by asking for more funding they appear to be well wide of the mark on how they are viewed within the Scottish golf club scene.
HughJars
Q-School Graduate
What Jacko said <thumbs up seeing as smileys aren't working>
Grant85
Head Pro
In fairness a lot of what you are saying is generic criticism without really any clear examples. which was kind of my point.
The fees going up is obviously tough to swallow for some, but it's hardly fortunes and nothing majorly out of line with inflation given they have not increased for a while. And especially when you consider what the average club golfer spends on their golf over the course of a year, again the fees are a pittance really.
In terms of club admin I don't know if you could really say what they don't do that English or Irish organisations do for their member clubs? And what are their fees for club members?
I know that a lot of clubs who have engaged with them have gotten good support and advice in terms of what to do to improve their membership numbers, pricing strategies, marketing tips etc.
I'm not defending them carte blanche, but there doesn't seem to by any constructive dialogue going on here.
thing is though over the last few years, club membership in Scotland had plummeted year on year, clubs are struggling all over the country and The SGU has not done much to turn this around. elite results have also been poor despite throwing money at it and plenty of Jollies for the boys . they have a history of wasting money on white elephants etc, now they want more money again.
Grant85
Head Pro
I personally struggle to see the direct link with that and the day to day goings on at Scottish Golf.
As I said, short of a world player at the top end of the game, there's not a magic bullet to get thousands more people into golf. We all have a responsibility to try and grow the game. Whether it is individuals harassing their mates to get up and play a game, getting their kids into the sport. Or clubs offering creative and flexible routes for novices taking up the sport. I'm not all that sure what Scottish Golf might do that could be more effective.
And I'm not sure if Golf England or the Irish association are doing much, other than having a few top players capturing the imagination in world events.
i can't give an opinion on England but Irish golf seems to have something going for it and its not just the Rory Factor, after all they had two major champions in the recent past before RM. As i'v said prev. Ireland has a similar climate, sim population and Percentage of Population who play, yet Scottish golf is losing 2K of club members a year. I don't see much being done by the SGU to halt this slide
Jacko_G
Blackballed
Again utter tripe, look back at the thread and the specific examples already quoted. Why do you think that the counies have stood up and said no more?
If you want to believe that they are offering value and bringing much needed structure and professionalism to the Scottish game fill your boots. Some of us know from experience that is not the case. Again, why the counties have said no more!
Grant85
Head Pro
I think there is a lot on their website about support and advice that they can give clubs... and do offer it to clubs who recognise the need for action and spend the time doing forward planning and initiatives. I'm not sure what you expect SG to do that they aren't already doing? As I said, I'm not saying they are brilliant but people seem very quick to simply dismiss them as incompetent without really coming up with anything specific to back that up.
As I've said, it's unfortunate that there are so few elite Scottish players and yes Scottish Golf has a very poor record in developing elite players to become tour pros, but even with the right structure in place there is no guarantee that we would get guys coming through who would capture the imagination of prospective golfers. Monty and Paul Lawrie were top players and popular among Scottish Golf fans, but they were far from being a Rory McIlroy or Tommy Fleetwood in terms of world appeal.
With regards to participation and membership numbers, there are a lot of clubs that have effectively sleep walked into this situation who were happy, up until the last few years, to retain joining fees, waiting lists, all male memberships, requirement of multiple proposers etc all factors almost specifically designed to discourage new members and novice players to take up the game.
I've just joined at East Ren, and aside from asking what I did for a living and still having 'proposer' and 'seconder' on the form the whole process was entirely refreshing. Completely welcoming, VC and Captain spent nearly 2 hours with me talking about the club, my golf history, the plans for the club and course and both pretty much offering to get a game with me before the end of the meeting. And especially impressive given that they were doing several of these introductions each week.
It was unlike anything I've experienced at the 2 other clubs I've been members at, who basically said thanks for your money, here's a diary and there's the 1st tee.
DCB
Well-known member
Drumoig ... a classic example of so many issues that still haunt SGU. Anyone who could put together a proper business case would have seen that this was doomed from the start. It would have been more cost effective to have someone throwing a tenner into a fire every 30 seconds than the amount of money that has been poured into that ill fated dream. No wonder the club members don't trust the governing union when that is still fresh in the memory.
We've had a cracking summer this year!!
This was before he had a good French open and won the Irish open.
rulefan
Tour Winner
Of course the national unions (E, I, S & W) get nothing at all out of the professional game. We in Yorkshire put a lot of money into developing young golfers and are seeing results in the elite amateur rankings. But in recent years we are losing too many that are turning pro either too early or have no chance of making a good living out of it.
Jacko_G
Blackballed
If they have "no chance" of making it then surely that is a fault of the coaching set up? Why build up hopes and dreams when its clear that they really don't have the ability, and yes I know someone will come back with Paul Lawrie, Iain Poulter but those guys are very very very much in the minority.
rulefan
Tour Winner
The county coaches the young players so that they can help the county be the best in the country and the players the best in the country or the world. They are not coached with the prime intention of their being professionals. But if they do, we wish them well. But many are happy to get the experience of playing the minor tours for a few years and then running a shop, coaching or returning to the amateur ranks.
Jacko_G
Blackballed
I see that they have agreed a £14.50 increase. Absolute disgrace.
And surprise surprise it's £14.50 per club you are a member of.
And surprise surprise it's £14.50 per club you are a member of.
It's a bit like Russia and their hacking, what you gonna do about it ? Nothing 
Robster59
Tour Rookie
Scottish Golf’s membership has voted in favour of a resolution to increase the per capita fee at a General Meeting held at the Stirling Court Hotel tonight.
The resolution was passed with a majority vote of 60.2%. The increase from £11.25 to £14.50 will take effect from January 2019 and will be frozen until the collection of subscriptions in January 2022.
The increased revenue of circa £500,000 has been ring-fenced to support the development of key strategic priorities and also to offset proposed cuts announced in light of decreased funding available to Scottish Golf.
Specifically, it will also enable Scottish Golf to create a fit-for-purpose national junior programme, explore income generation from non-membership golfers – known as nomadic golfers – and offer a free-of-charge digital service for clubs to support and improve membership services at all levels, including tee-booking, competition management, and handicapping.............
Full story at https://www.scottishgolf.org/affiliation-increase-approved-at-scottish-golf-general-meeting/
The resolution was passed with a majority vote of 60.2%. The increase from £11.25 to £14.50 will take effect from January 2019 and will be frozen until the collection of subscriptions in January 2022.
The increased revenue of circa £500,000 has been ring-fenced to support the development of key strategic priorities and also to offset proposed cuts announced in light of decreased funding available to Scottish Golf.
Specifically, it will also enable Scottish Golf to create a fit-for-purpose national junior programme, explore income generation from non-membership golfers – known as nomadic golfers – and offer a free-of-charge digital service for clubs to support and improve membership services at all levels, including tee-booking, competition management, and handicapping.............
Full story at https://www.scottishgolf.org/affiliation-increase-approved-at-scottish-golf-general-meeting/
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
Without commenting on the overall issues I can't help picking up on something being both ring fenced, and as an offset... makes no fiscal sense at all.