Golf subs for 2014

[bladeplayer]

Mate ya have me astounded with this answer , so you expect the old gits who probably helped build the club up to what ??

Reduce fees so the (see it from an older view) young uns with the big houses and maybe flash cars and all top of the range gear can play for cheaper than the 30-40 year olds who made it possible for themselves to be members when they were at the same stage in life by making sacrifices ?? ,

Now im in the Mortgage and young family brigade the same as yourself , but im in it because thats where i choose to be right now in my life so if i want to be a member i have to make other sacrifices in life to achieve this , sacrifices that don't impinge on the family or our quality of life .

For me its Juniors (in education) and OAP get discounts , others pay the same for full membership .. just my opinion tho

For the record ours is €800 a year which i think is a bit on the dear side but its 7 minds from home , 2 mins from work , so if you it suits me down to the ground , i pay a bit dearer to be home sooner after a game ,
I prefered my old club but its a 45 min drive away , makes it a long day ..

money i can replace , time , i cant

 

[Birchy]

Mate ya have me astounded with this answer , so you expect the old gits who probably helped build the club up to what ??

Reduce fees so the (see it from an older view) young uns with the big houses and maybe flash cars and all top of the range gear can play for cheaper than the 30-40 year olds who made it possible for themselves to be members when they were at the same stage in life by making sacrifices ?? ,

Now im in the Mortgage and young family brigade the same as yourself , but im in it because thats where i choose to be right now in my life so if i want to be a member i have to make other sacrifices in life to achieve this , sacrifices that don't impinge on the family or our quality of life .

For me its Juniors (in education) and OAP get discounts , others pay the same for full membership .. just my opinion tho

I don't know many people in the 20-30 age range with a big house and a flashy car and a family. Wayne Rooney maybe??

All the flash cars in the car park are from older people are loaded but yet choose to squabble over a few hundred quid cheaper membership for people with less disposable income. Old gits who vote against change purely on principle, this type of people are what is holding the game of golf back.

The old clique mentality is alive and kicking and creating many barriers for people who look to get into the game of golf.

Looking at most of the top clubs in the north west and in general most of them have some sort of intermediate option for younger people.

 

[GreiginFife]

I see more 30-40 year olds with big houses and flash cars - don't see many under the age of 30

The current 30-40 took advantage of the reduced fees in their junior years did they not ?

I'm 35 and never had the option to take advantage of any reduced fees as they didn't exist at the clubs I was a member at. Only been at Muckhart since I was 30 so already in the old git bracket.

And to your point, I see more young professionals driving Audi's and Mercs these days than I do older people (who seem to drive Mondeos and Octavias these days).
I work with many 20-30 year olds that have flash pads and flash cars, the older ones seem to be more savvy and live within their means as this is how their generation was raised (like mine was).

 

[jimbob.someroo]

Which is why it should be a flat rate somewhere in between

But with a flat rate in between 18-60 those that remain would end up paying more as a good proportion of those in their first few years of work would not be able to pay full rate and if they do return (at the same club), this might not be until they are in the 40's when they hopefully are in a more economically stable place to be able to afford it. Between the ages of 22 (when I joined Ealing) and 28 when incremental membership ends, I would have paid just over £7000 in fees. If 10 others did the same, which is a conservative number, that's £70,000 the club has missed out on - and there's no guarantee we'd come back when we were 29.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

1st bold bit:Yes, they are generalisations and not as true as they used to be
2nd bold bit: Give something up then, that's what the rest of us do
3rd bold bit: What else are you spending your money on?

1st bit: I accept that people are having families later, so that isn't as true, but I don't see how any would argue that the younger people earn less on average than people older than them. I don't know many job where people walk in to a large salary, and get demoted over their life.

2nd bit: Ok, I would give up my golf membership to be fair. I'm not playing massive amounts (because of the already mentioned other interests!), so I don't get as much out of it as others do. Lets say a fair amount of the other intermediate members do the same, who do you think is going to make up this shortfall?

3rd bit: Various. Most of it goes on running a semi-alright car, renting a flat, and things like a gym membership. Combine this with an average wage, and there isn't massive amounts left. Again, if my membership were to double, I wouldn't pay it.

I think a lot of people are looking at the "fairness" of this. In the majority, these are businesses. Even in the members clubs. Businesses look at each market, and price accordingly. If 40 year olds will pay on average more than 25 year olds, guess who gets a higher price. Supply and demand in my eyes.

 

[bladeplayer]

Im in the 20-30 age group and will be leaving a club with no intermediate option for one that has got one. My current club wonder why people in my age group are like rocking horse droppings when they are paying full whack on top of a big mortgage & young family.

s.

I see more 30-40 year olds with big houses and flash cars - don't see many under the age of 30

The current 30-40 took advantage of the reduced fees in their junior years did they not ?

As per the age thing i was directly answering Birchys comment

As per your second point in some places yes but not in all , definatley not in ours

 

[HawkeyeMS]

It could be because they couldn't afford it though. A lot do pick clubs that they can afford - make it a flat rate and you could lose senior sections as well as the younger members of the golf club.

But in some cases, those outside the discount brackets can't afford it either but in their case, they don't join. This is my point, using age to set boundaries isn't fair. I have a mate who lost his job earlier this year, he is working again but gets paid less and as a result can't afford to rejoin - he's been a member of the club for 6 years before he lost his job and had no intention of leaving. Nobody offers him subsidised rates because he doesn't fit the age bracket.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

I work with many 20-30 year olds that have flash pads and flash cars, the older ones seem to be more savvy and live within their means as this is how their generation was raised (like mine was).

Oh brilliant, top quality "old codger" speak. So the big collapse of a few years ago was built from your generation "living within their means" was it?!

Every single generation will have people who live beyond it, and those who don't. Guess what, if a golf course offers reduced rates, and we take it, that is still living within our means. If we prioritise to have a nice car/flat etc, how do you know that isn't by skimping elsewhere? (by not paying full golf memberships for example!)

Quick, someone start charging juniors more money! We might get too many of them in otherwise, and then who knows what may happen!!

 

[GreiginFife]

Lot of talk about moving with the times in this thread. Surely is it not the case in these modern times that you cannot discriminate against someone due to their age?
Or is it a case that we will pick and chose the bits of the times that we move with?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

But in some cases, those outside the discount brackets can't afford it either but in their case, they don't join. This is my point, using age to set boundaries isn't fair. I have a mate who lost his job earlier this year, he is working again but gets paid less and as a result can't afford to rejoin - he's been a member of the club for 6 years before he lost his job and had no intention of leaving. Nobody offers him subsidised rates because he doesn't fit the age bracket.

Then he looks for a club he can afford to rejoin. Not everyone can afford to join golf clubs but they do make it as easy as possible for all ages to join. Juniors to teens to graduates who aren't earning much to OAPs living on pensions

Juniors are the future of a golf club ( including people in their 20's) - the seniors are the lifeblood of a club. The fees are structured at most clubs to reflect this.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Lot of talk about moving with the times in this thread. Surely is it not the case in these modern times that you cannot discriminate against someone due to their age?
Or is it a case that we will pick and chose the bits of the times that we move with?

No one is "discriminated" against though are they.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

But with a flat rate in between 18-60 those that remain would end up paying more as a good proportion of those in their first few years of work would not be able to pay full rate and if they do return (at the same club), this might not be until they are in the 40's when they hopefully are in a more economically stable place to be able to afford it. Between the ages of 22 (when I joined Ealing) and 28 when incremental membership ends, I would have paid just over £7000 in fees. If 10 others did the same, which is a conservative number, that's £70,000 the club has missed out on - and there's no guarantee we'd come back when we were 29.

But if you made it a flat rate, you might get more people who aren't in the bracket joining because the fees were a bit less. I do understand the need to get younger members into the club but not necessarily with the structure. What happens to all those 28 year olds who's fees are going to double next year? Can the all of a sudden afford full rate when they turn 29. By and large, if you can afford it at 29 you can afford it at 28.

 

[GB72]

Perhaps the solution is to offer reductions based on time spent as a member. I know a fair few who took up the game on retirement and so they have not helped build up the club but benefit from the reduced rate. If you gave a discount based on how long you had been a member then people of all age groups could qualify and would have contributed to the club for a sufficient period to justify it. It would also act as an incentive to stay a member at one club than move on.

 

[GreiginFife]

Oh brilliant, top quality "old codger" speak. So the big collapse of a few years ago was built from your generation "living within their means" was it?!

Every single generation will have people who live beyond it, and those who don't. Guess what, if a golf course offers reduced rates, and we take it, that is still living within our means. If we prioritise to have a nice car/flat etc, how do you know that isn't by skimping elsewhere? (by not paying full golf memberships for example!)

Quick, someone start charging juniors more money! We might get too many of them in otherwise, and then who knows what may happen!!

I do not know that they are not skimping elsewhere. Just as you don't know that all 20-30 year olds are earning less than me just because I am 35.
Also if someone is skimping somehwere to spend money somewhere else then should I be responsible for subsidinsing their choice?

The collapse of a few years ago was caused by all not a select few in one generation. Personally I did not take out a mortgage that was beyond my means and I did not buy a car that was out side of my means. If that makes me an old codger then bya ll means.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Then he looks for a club he can afford to rejoin. Not everyone can afford to join golf clubs but they do make it as easy as possible for all ages to join. Juniors to teens to graduates who aren't earning much to OAPs living on pensions

Juniors are the future of a golf club ( including people in their 20's) - the seniors are the lifeblood of a club. The fees are structured at most clubs to reflect this.

Again I ask you, why should someone of 35 have to look for a cheaper club when someone of 25 gets it half price?

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Perhaps the solution is to offer reductions based on time spent as a member. I know a fair few who took up the game on retirement and so they have not helped build up the club but benefit from the reduced rate. If you gave a discount based on how long you had been a member then people of all age groups could qualify and would have contributed to the club for a sufficient period to justify it. It would also act as an incentive to stay a member at one club than move on.

That's more like it

 

[GreiginFife]

No one is "discriminated" against though are they.

How do you reason that. If I say to you, here is an apple. How old are you? You are 29, ok that apple is 30p. Next customer. Here is an apple, how old are you? 31, ok that apple is 60p...

What other grounds could I assume that the charge was more for the same product? Is the apple inferior? Do I get to use it less? If the answer to both is no, that this is, for all intents and purposes, the same apple then it is my age that is determining the price.
How can that not be discriminatory where I am treated differently based on my age?

 

[Khamelion]

At the begining of this year I was a nomadic player, there was no point in myself becoming a member anywhere as my work did not afford me the time to get the benefit of being a member.

Someone mentioned above that the 'old gits' are too stuck in their ways to comprehend what modern society is and how peoples work life and casual life interact. This became quite clear, when my dad asked at his club if there was a pay and play scheme. I wanted to be a member somewhere as I wanted to enter comps and get a handicap, become pat of the club social scene etc... However the reply from the club secretary was one of shock, disbelief and horror that a pay and play scheme was bein suggested, "What we cannot do that, if we do everyone will want to play", was the reply, which kind of beggars belief coming from the secretary of a club which has lost getting close to 100 members this year. Another example of this clubs inflexibility was a group of golfers had come for a day of golf, there was a dozen of them, they enjoyed the day, enjoyed the course, but when they asked if they could have a little discount on membership if all 12 signed up, they were told no. Which I can see the view of the club on one hand, but when, as I wrote above, that club was losing members 12 new subscriptions surely would have been welcomed.

Anyway, my work circumstances changed allowing me more time to play, another course close by, my home course now, Whickham GC, put up an offer of reduced fees for new members held for two years. At the AGM the members voted to try and get new members in to bolster the ranks rather than increase the annual subs. My mate who was already a member even got a rebate on his subs and got a surprise cheque in the post, due to the annual subs being reduced.

So come January I pay the same in 2014 as I did in 2013, some of the old guard who were opposed to change have seen the light and are slowly but surely moving forward with new ideas to keep the club active and with healthy membership.

 

[bladeplayer]

Im quiet enjoying the different opinions on this , it always gets varyied and interesting comments .. to me its about choices and where i appreciate clubs need to do more to attract and keep members i dont think it can be implemented on an age income biased criteria , it has to be equal all around .. if you are a certain age or status it shouldn't entitle you to anything on them grounds alone ,

The decision to which club you join or stay at is totaly yours , you need to weigh up if you can truly afford it & if you want to stay or join them you have to make the changes in your own life to make this happen ..

you cant expect that a club should expect a person 10 year older than you has to pay more than you do for the same service because some economists have theory's as to how much you earn and spend is age related ..

first and fore most a club has to be equal , or to be seen as equal ..

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

My club had its AGM last night and rather than increase the subs ( currently £545 including SGU fees, county fees and course insurance ) they decided to implement a £30 levy to cover clubhouse repairs and some on course projects. This was voted in by the members present at the meeting instead of a £30 increase in the fees. By having a levy it means that ALL members have to pay towards these projects as seniors pay a percentage of the men's subs and therefore would only pay a percentage of the increase and life members also have to pay the £30 where an increase in subs has no effect on them. This is already bringing negative comments from some members on social media so what is everyone else's clubs doing about fees for next year?

Well - I wish ours had gone up by £30 - £70 increase unfortunately. We need to increase our full membership by about 75 to 500 - we have 'let' it drop. Whilst the course would obviously be busier I think we have to accept that. Maybe we should actually be looking to increase it even further - maybe to 550 to take into account churn. Were we to get 75 more members and back to 500 that would (at today's renewal cost) give us another £110k a year! And all hunky-dory. Things are a bit tough at the moment - but the club is financially stable - we just need to give it a bit more ballast for choppy waters that may be ahead. But first we have to work out how to get these 75 members (not all at once please )

Thankfully we look to have an extremely professional committee to steer our course - couple of accountants, couple of successful businessmen, marketing professionals etc. We are also broadening the role of the Club Secretary to include business development and marketing aspects of the running a club - with many traditional secretary duties being delegated to to the assistant secretary. Not how the Golf Club Secretary has been seen in the past in traditional members clubs - but has to be.