Golf subs for 2014

[Deleted member 15344]

Indeed I do. And I do it because I can afford to do it. I CHOOSE to do it and I CANafford to. If you cannot afford to do it why expect subsidy from others, why not wait until you can do afford it?

A lot of new jobs don't need a degree. But whether they do or not it is still a choice to go to Uni and once that is over, as hard as it might be to not play golf, well sometimes we need to make tough choices.

We all have to be accountable for the choices we make.

And because younger people don't ear as much if they had to pay the same as older members then they couldn't join and the lost fees would need to be recovered some how - guess how - by increasing your subs.

 

[GreiginFife]

And because younger people don't ear as much if they had to pay the same as older members then they couldn't join and the lost fees would need to be recovered some how - guess how - by increasing your subs.

And? I would then have to assess whether I could afford it. If I could (like I have with the last few year's increases) then I would continue to pay. If I couldn't then I would need to make that tough choice and not continue.
But at least I wouldn't be talking to a guy in the bar that's been out on the course every day that week but pays £200 a year less than me just because he is 29.

As I said, we all make choices and need to be accountable for them.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

As far as 'reduced' rates for under 30s. I have no issue with this. As an over 30yr old member, what is more important to me is that my club remains solvent and that I can remain a member without me having to fork out on above inflation risers in annual subs - or have to stick my hand in my pocket for a levy - though if I had to I would.

The best way of my objectives being met is by the club attracting new members and retaining them. If that is helped by having introductory offers and reduced rates for under 30s then fine - so be it. I don't really care if someone joins and takes advantage of any introductory or under 30 deals - and then disappears. I can't really control that (though we could try and have some sort of - difficult to administer - 'early exit' penalty fee). I choose to accept that some will take advantage - but whilst they are members they help keep my subs down. Does it really bother me if there is a high annual churn rate? Not really.

I am not really that bothered about whether a new lad gets his golf for x% less than I - as long as my subs don't go up too much year on year. I am just not into 'why should so and so get...?' type discussions as they are almost ALWAYS concerned about the personal needs and wishes of the individual and hence are inconsistent with improving the the collective well-being of the club.

As long as I can afford to stay a member, and new member and member retention initiatives don't have a significant impact on my membership and playing pleasure - then I'm OK with that.

We need and can easily accommodate 75 new full members - I'll support pretty much any initiative put forward to get these members.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Out on the course every day that week ?

Again the structure is done in a way to protect the future of the club. Flat rates will reduce membership - unless you disagree

So did you complain about your fees when in your 20's and will you complain when I'm your 60's

 

[jimbob.someroo]

And? I would then have to assess whether I could afford it. If I could (like I have with the last few year's increases) then I would continue to pay. If I couldn't then I would need to make that tough choice and not continue.
But at least I wouldn't be talking to a guy in the bar that's been out on the course every day that week but pays £200 a year less than me just because he is 29.

As I said, we all make choices and need to be accountable for them.

With all due respect, that's a really petty point of view. You'd rather pay more each year so that some others couldn't play. I know golf is an elitist, but do you not think that's a little far?

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

And? I would then have to assess whether I could afford it. If I could (like I have with the last few year's increases) then I would continue to pay. If I couldn't then I would need to make that tough choice and not continue.
But at least I wouldn't be talking to a guy in the bar that's been out on the course every day that week but pays £200 a year less than me just because he is 29.

As I said, we all make choices and need to be accountable for them.

So the prices go up for all. And X% realise they can't afford it, so they leave. And the prices go up again to cover for the lack of their income, and Y% decide they can't pay the even higher. etc etc.

I can kind of see where your viewpoint comes from, but I couldn't think you were more wrong. It is coming across as bitter that someone may get something you didn't when you were that age. And unfortunately, society has changed a hell of a lot, so thinking the same way as it was years ago will just not work.

 

[GreiginFife]

Out on the course every day that week ?

Again the structure is done in a way to protect the future of the club. Flat rates will reduce membership - unless you disagree

So did you complain about your fees when in your 20's and will you complain when I'm your 60's

Yes, I had a conversation with a chap that had played every day that week.
Flat rates if somewhere in the middle would probably increase membership IMO. So if I paid £490 a year and so did everyone, instead of £580 for me and £400 for under 30's then I see that as a compromise that lots of the over 30's, that left because they could no longer afford it, could accept. In the last two years we have lost more members from the 30+ category than we have gained in the intermediate bracket.

No, I did not complain about my fees in my 20's nor will I in my 60s. I made and will make the same informed choice that I make every year when deciding to renew my subs - can I afford it?

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

No, I did not complain about my fees in my 20's nor will I in my 60s. I made and will make the same informed choice that I make every year when deciding to renew my subs - can I afford it?

Exactly the same decision I make. So why, because I'm offered subsided rates, does it mean I'm not looking after my money, or living beyond my means?

 

[GreiginFife]

So the prices go up for all. And X% realise they can't afford it, so they leave. And the prices go up again to cover for the lack of their income, and Y% decide they can't pay the even higher. etc etc.

I can kind of see where your viewpoint comes from, but I couldn't think you were more wrong. It is coming across as bitter that someone may get something you didn't when you were that age. And unfortunately, society has changed a hell of a lot, so thinking the same way as it was years ago will just not work.

It can come across any way you like it to. But YOU cannot sit there and say that someone else "could not be more wrong" to have an opinion on a matter.
I work in business improvement, have done for 8 years, certified as a Lean Sigma practitioner, saved businesses in excess of £30m so know that there are other ways to protect income than just the bleeding obvious "lets offer a staged payment".
Of course, you might not understand that there are options outside of the obvious.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

But YOU cannot sit there and say that someone else "could not be more wrong" to have an opinion on a matter.

My apologies for that, I retract that comment as an ill-thought out phrasing.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Yes, I had a conversation with a chap that had played every day that week.
Flat rates if somewhere in the middle would probably increase membership IMO. So if I paid £490 a year and so did everyone, instead of £580 for me and £400 for under 30's then I see that as a compromise that lots of the over 30's, that left because they could no longer afford it, could accept. In the last two years we have lost more members from the 30+ category than we have gained in the intermediate bracket.

No, I did not complain about my fees in my 20's nor will I in my 60s. I made and will make the same informed choice that I make every year when deciding to renew my subs - can I afford it?

So you don't actually want them to pay the same as you - you actually want to pay less yourself.

And you didn't mind paying the cheaper rate when you could hence why you didnt suggest a flat rate then.

 

[Twire]

You chose to pay for golf - if you don't like it then don't pay it. You aren't being forced by anyone.

A lot of new jobs require people to have degrees so people need to go to uni to get a good job

And this is my point, I'm now 50 and thinking I might have to give up my golf for a few years to help finance my daughter through uni...........oh unless someone want's subsidise me.

 

[jimbob.someroo]

And this is my point, I'm now 50 and thinking I might have to give up my golf for a few years to help finance my daughter through uni...........oh unless someone want's subsidise me.

Without taking this massively off tangent, and appreciate that everyone's circumstances are different, but you can get through uni without help from family relatively straightforwardly. Although the new loans have a scarier headline figure, you pay it back in much smaller increments than previous loans and it gets wiped off a lot sooner. If you get the full loan, and work a couple of days a week, you'll be absolutely fine. I did this and had more disposable income than I'd ever had (and probably ever will). Had an amazing time at uni and met some great friends during the couple of days working. And despite the naysayers and the one-offs, all the studies done around the time came to the same conclusion; you'd still be several hundred thousand pounds better off over the course of your lifetime compared with those that dont - in 2011, the figure was around £400k

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

...and I used to resent that seniors (when they had a reduced subs) could and did play every day when I couldn't.

[Aside - though that was largely due to the mess my previous course got into during the winter - and that mess was partly caused by heavy weekday golf - much if not most by seniors. But that is winter course management and spring recovery, and isn't an issue with my current place]

But today - well actually I don't care about how much seniors play during the week (for the same subs) and the same would be for a new member paying a reduced sub who was in the fortunate position to play every day. Would I be resentful? - no. Why? Because the fact that he plays every day makes absolutely no difference to me and my playing and his subs help keep mine down.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

And this is my point, I'm now 50 and thinking I might have to give up my golf for a few years to help finance my daughter through uni...........oh unless someone want's subsidise me.

And that will be your choice to make.

Your daughter can make the choice also on what to do - she can also finance her way through uni

Getting people into golf clubs young helps reduce the fees - keeping the seniors playing a long as possible keeps the fees down

 

[JezzE]

Clearly a very emotive subject this one!

Of course, I can see all sides to most of the arguments, but many golf clubs run the risk of dying if something isn't done to bring more of the younger adult generation into the fold, so I would have to come down on the side of needing to see the wider picture, otherwise some golf clubs won't be there by the time that generation hits their 40s and 50s and is rolling around in so much money they don't know what to do with it... oh, hang on, that's me now and I'm most definitely not doing that! But even so, I would far rather something is done to keep the younger generation in the fold even if they're paying less than me - others clearly disagree with that!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Clearly a very emotive subject this one!

Of course, I can see all sides to most of the arguments, but many golf clubs run the risk of dying if something isn't done to bring more of the younger adult generation into the fold, so I would have to come down on the side of needing to see the wider picture, otherwise some golf clubs won't be there by the time that generation hits their 40s and 50s and is rolling around in so much money they don't know what to do with it... oh, hang on, that's me now and I'm most definitely not doing that! But even so, I would far rather something is done to keep the younger generation in the fold even if they're paying less than me - others clearly disagree with that!

Summed up perfectly - lots of thinking about the now.

People didn't mind paying reduced fees when they were younger and won't mind paying reduced when they are older

But also,want it in their 30's to 60's as well - sorry but can't have it all

 

[JCW]

I have just got mine , £1405 for 2014 payable in Jan , I have sat down and will get up soon .............EYG

 

[patricks148]

Clearly a very emotive subject this one!

Of course, I can see all sides to most of the arguments, but many golf clubs run the risk of dying if something isn't done to bring more of the younger adult generation into the fold, so I would have to come down on the side of needing to see the wider picture, otherwise some golf clubs won't be there by the time that generation hits their 40s and 50s and is rolling around in so much money they don't know what to do with it... oh, hang on, that's me now and I'm most definitely not doing that! But even so, I would far rather something is done to keep the younger generation in the fold even if they're paying less than me - others clearly disagree with that!

I don't know for sure, but surly youngsters have always been in the minority in golf. its an older persons recreational sport, no? so isn't targeting younger players always going to fail?

I only started playing in my 40's and quite a few guys i know are the same.

When you are younger at Uni or in the few years after etc, are you interested in golf i should say prob not.. in my 20's i was more interested in going out and at the weekend drinking and chasing Girls, i'm sure many guys today are into the same.

are you not more likely to start playing when you have more time into your 30s and 40's when other sports become harder to maintain?

Memberships have always been on the older side and with people living longer then you are going to get more older members?

 

[Khamelion]

How about means tested golf memberships then

Didn't that used to be the case for some courses? Apply in writing, then sit before a comittee, where you were asked what you did for a living and what kind of car you drove?

Fortunatley that's not the case anymore, as you cannot discrimate against someone, well quite frankly for anything. So even if yu come from the planet Andoria, have blue skin and antenae coming out the top of you head, if you can pay your fees, then your money would be as good as anyone elses.