Golf Random Irritations

Orikoru

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From the Club’s Web Page

“Everybody gets a game at Grim’s Dyke Golf Club!” That’s our motto and reputation. There is no formal tee-booking system, no cliques or privileged groups – we just turn up and have a game! It’s wonderful!”

There you have it!
Yeah that text has been up there for donkey's years. As I mentioned earlier, when we joined the general manager at that time told us a booking system had recently been implemented and indicated it was here to stay not just temporary. Sounds like a fake quote to me as well - too cheesy to be real. ?
 

chrisd

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I always took the view that "changing shoes in the clubhouse" was to make members go there, which meant they were more likely to spend money on food, drink etc

After I forgot to pick up my golf shoes on an away day, which was too far to return and collect them ,I now always change them in the car park unless its somewhere we are showering and changing for food when I always take my gear back to my car before dining.
 

SteveW86

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Yeah that text has been up there for donkey's years. As I mentioned earlier, when we joined the general manager at that time told us a booking system had recently been implemented and indicated it was here to stay not just temporary. Sounds like a fake quote to me as well - too cheesy to be real. ?


Sounds a similar tone to the email that you quoted earlier.
 
D

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No better feeling in golf, turning up at the club wondering if you're going to get out on the course in the next 2 hours....?

Can only lead to losing the recent converts to the game.
I've been a member of a club that didn't use a booking system. Never a problem getting on the course, everyone gets to know the busy/quiet times and who tends to play when. Even at the weekend the longest I had to wait would be about 30 mins and we would just have a coffee in the clubhouse first.
 

HomerJSimpson

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We had to switch to booked times when track and trace came in. Before that we never had tee times outside a comp/club match which compared to our nearest competitors was our USP. It has decimated the roll ups which aren't always able to get times together as it's strictly first come first served. These were always the heartbeat of the club and in our case were inclusive to all. There is a referendum due. There is a plan for a hybrid system where each group would be allocated a set number of times per the day they play, although no guarantee there will be enough space to meet demand. After that members will vote to keep the hybrid or stick with bookings. We had a load of new members but none of these have had the chance to enjoy the roll up aspect (if its busy players usually go off the 10th, and filter in when they get to the first and filter in between groups coming round. Has always worked without conflict). As a result they are going to vote on an option they've not even seen so bound to fail.

Chances are we'll go to booked times all the time which a large proportion of members that have been there for years feel is ripping the soul of the club apart. Aside from anything else, it is these groups, especially at weekends that are spending the most on drink and food. There seems to be zero price on loyalty and we are pandering to those that have been there five minutes. Having checked the constitution and captains book our default position is no tee times but the new captain seems adamant we won't be going back there, which in my (and others) is unconstitutional) but he has come from a working environment where his word went and he thinks he can do what he wants. We have a new GM and so he's none the wise and going to a large degree on what he's told as the new boy
 
D

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I've been a member of a club that didn't use a booking system. Never a problem getting on the course, everyone gets to know the busy/quiet times and who tends to play when. Even at the weekend the longest I had to wait would be about 30 mins and we would just have a coffee in the clubhouse first.

We used to be like that but as we got more members it’s used to be busy queuing at those prime times . We were fine because we were out very early but it used to be a nightmare when people started on the tenth

The tee bookings came in and swindles as a whole got themselves organised

We then went for a vote tee bookings or not - and if there was a want for a hybrid - 92% voted to keep tee bookings and no hybrid

We still have two groups who don’t like the fact they can’t get when they used to play so keep bringing it up and wanted “swindle times” which we have decided against

The bar is doing better than ever - pace of play appears to be better and all swindles work bar the odd one who can’t organise themselves or don’t always get consecutive tee times.

We would lose those younger newer members if we removed tee times - a lot more people need to know when they will finish and organised their life around it
 

Imurg

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We have reverted to our "rock up and play" format as directed by our Constitution.
Booking only on Tuesday mornings (ladies) and Sunday mornings (men)
Thats the way it has been for many years......
The trouble is we have over 600 members and most of them want to play at least once a week.
We had an example 2 weekends ago where the system just doesn't work.
Saturday was a horrendously wet day and hardly anyone played..which meant on Sunday, a much nicer day, 2/3rds of the club tried to turn up and play.
Not everyone got to start and not everyone who started managed to finish..
Again on the Monday Bank Holiday after New Year.....similar numbers wanted to play and the course was rammed to the point we had 2 or 3 groups waiting on each tee.
Often the system works but often it doesn't as it depends on how many people want to play and that's a very unpredictable number....
We had a vote on retaining the booking system used during the worst of covid but it was heavily defeated by the elder generation of the club who seem to be quite happy to stand around for 40 minutes waiting to play and then take 4 1/2 hours to play a 3 1/4 hour round
I'm baffled by it....
 
D

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We have reverted to our "rock up and play" format as directed by our Constitution.
Booking only on Tuesday mornings (ladies) and Sunday mornings (men)
Thats the way it has been for many years......
The trouble is we have over 600 members and most of them want to play at least once a week.
We had an example 2 weekends ago where the system just doesn't work.
Saturday was a horrendously wet day and hardly anyone played..which meant on Sunday, a much nicer day, 2/3rds of the club tried to turn up and play.
Not everyone got to start and not everyone who started managed to finish..
Again on the Monday Bank Holiday after New Year.....similar numbers wanted to play and the course was rammed to the point we had 2 or 3 groups waiting on each tee.
Often the system works but often it doesn't as it depends on how many people want to play and that's a very unpredictable number....
We had a vote on retaining the booking system used during the worst of covid but it was heavily defeated by the elder generation of the club who seem to be quite happy to stand around for 40 minutes waiting to play and then take 4 1/2 hours to play a 3 1/4 hour round
I'm baffled by it....

Unfortunately there are some that can’t move forward and just want things to be exactly how they were as that’s what suited them - it’s not looking beyond their own wants and needs , we have it with some of the long standing members - a lot of them have embraced it and work with it and the newer members certainly prefer it , the bar is certainly seeing the benefit of it
 

Imurg

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Unfortunately there are some that can’t move forward and just want things to be exactly how they were as that’s what suited them - it’s not looking beyond their own wants and needs , we have it with some of the long standing members - a lot of them have embraced it and work with it and the newer members certainly prefer it , the bar is certainly seeing the benefit of it
One of the issues of not having a booking system is that the club has no idea how many rounds are being played or when they're being played
This can't help the greenkeepers to plan any work that might need to be done around play, it can't help the bar in planning for supplies and it doesn't help the members plan their golf....
 

Bazzatron

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We have reverted to our "rock up and play" format as directed by our Constitution.
Booking only on Tuesday mornings (ladies) and Sunday mornings (men)
Thats the way it has been for many years......
The trouble is we have over 600 members and most of them want to play at least once a week.
We had an example 2 weekends ago where the system just doesn't work.
Saturday was a horrendously wet day and hardly anyone played..which meant on Sunday, a much nicer day, 2/3rds of the club tried to turn up and play.
Not everyone got to start and not everyone who started managed to finish..
Again on the Monday Bank Holiday after New Year.....similar numbers wanted to play and the course was rammed to the point we had 2 or 3 groups waiting on each tee.
Often the system works but often it doesn't as it depends on how many people want to play and that's a very unpredictable number....
We had a vote on retaining the booking system used during the worst of covid but it was heavily defeated by the elder generation of the club who seem to be quite happy to stand around for 40 minutes waiting to play and then take 4 1/2 hours to play a 3 1/4 hour round
I'm baffled by it....

No kids or other commitments to get back to, there'll always be a loser in these situations or someone who feels hard done by. I just couldn't tell my young family I don't know when I'll be back, enjoy your Saturday.
 

cliveb

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Have roll-ups of course, but all roll-ups all of the time?? Surely as a paying member you should be able to play without being in a bloody roll-up?? I didn't include this part of his email but in the detail breakdown it was early Saturday/Sunday roll-up (from 8am), late Sat/Sun morning roll-up (from 8:45am) and Saturday lunch-time roll-up (from midday). And you're not allowed to play in the times in between because it's a three-tee start so you can't get on the course. Doesn't really leave many times available.
I'm no longer a member at Grims Dyke, but was for 10 years until April 2021. Unless they've made a significant change (which would not go down well with the traditional membership), there are no formal roll ups at the weekend.

What there is, is a system whereby you turn up, arrange playing groups in the clubhouse, and go out to play. You can turn up alone and playing groups will be rearranged to make sure nobody is left without a game. If you have a regular group, feel free to play with them. Each group can choose to play for money if they wish, but many choose not to. Sometimes a group of several 4 balls might informally agree to put some money in and make their own swindle.

You appear to believe you need to pay a fiver to join a roll up, but my suspicion is that you've encountered a particular bunch who like to run their informal swindle that way. You certainly don't have to join them.

The rationale for the 3 tee start is to get everyone in the clubhouse together at lunch time which makes for a superb social atmosphere.

The way it operates is Grims Dyke's USP. It may not suit some people, in which case perhaps it's not the club for them.

If there has been a major change since I left and there are now official roll ups at the weekend, then I am both surprised and disappointed to hear that.
 

Slab

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....
Chances are we'll go to booked times all the time which a large proportion of members that have been there for years feel is ripping the soul of the club apart. Aside from anything else, it is these groups, especially at weekends that are spending the most on drink and food. There seems to be zero price on loyalty and we are pandering to those that have been there five minutes. Having checked the constitution and captains book our default position is no tee times but the new captain seems adamant we won't be going back there, which in my (and others) is unconstitutional) but he has come from a working environment where his word went and he thinks he can do what he wants. We have a new GM and so he's none the wise and going to a large degree on what he's told as the new boy

Prob wasn't meant to come across like this but it kinda reads like you think 'length of membership' should provide some kind of 'seniority or higher status' in the club?
Bottom line I guess will be that the majority will decide what happens regardless of length of membership

Are long standing members really being loyal?
I've never thought of loyalty as being length of membership. Loyalty is someone staying even though they have a desire to leave, not simply staying because they actually wanted to stay anyway.
That's just doing what they wanted to do & has nothing to do with being 'loyal'
 

BrianM

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Was supposed to have a driver fitting last night.
Back swing A1, excellent tempo and everything in the right position, then the transition was horrible, where I was coming in so steep and was basically just popping the ball in the air....
Back to the drawing board.
 

HomerJSimpson

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Prob wasn't meant to come across like this but it kinda reads like you think 'length of membership' should provide some kind of 'seniority or higher status' in the club?
Bottom line I guess will be that the majority will decide what happens regardless of length of membership

Are long standing members really being loyal?
I've never thought of loyalty as being length of membership. Loyalty is someone staying even though they have a desire to leave, not simply staying because they actually wanted to stay anyway.
That's just doing what they wanted to do & has nothing to do with being 'loyal'

Nothing to do with length of membership giving any kind of higher status or seniority. More a case of the club has struggled twice for money, once when we were paying for the new clubhouse as part of the deal to move from inside the race course and later when membership numbers had dropped. Both times the club ran a bond scheme and many of those that have been long standing members supported the club by buying bonds to help. The club are now trying to move away from the constitutional position of no booked times and are pandering to new members who only know booked times
 

Orikoru

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I'm no longer a member at Grims Dyke, but was for 10 years until April 2021. Unless they've made a significant change (which would not go down well with the traditional membership), there are no formal roll ups at the weekend.

What there is, is a system whereby you turn up, arrange playing groups in the clubhouse, and go out to play. You can turn up alone and playing groups will be rearranged to make sure nobody is left without a game. If you have a regular group, feel free to play with them. Each group can choose to play for money if they wish, but many choose not to. Sometimes a group of several 4 balls might informally agree to put some money in and make their own swindle.

You appear to believe you need to pay a fiver to join a roll up, but my suspicion is that you've encountered a particular bunch who like to run their informal swindle that way. You certainly don't have to join them.

The rationale for the 3 tee start is to get everyone in the clubhouse together at lunch time which makes for a superb social atmosphere.

The way it operates is Grims Dyke's USP. It may not suit some people, in which case perhaps it's not the club for them.

If there has been a major change since I left and there are now official roll ups at the weekend, then I am both surprised and disappointed to hear that.
Here's the bit of the email that I didn't post earlier:

The weekend roll-ups are open to all seven-day members.
Saturday and Sunday early roll-up: meet in bar 07.45am, 08.00am tee. £2 entry - pays out 1st, 2nd, 3rd (dependant on numbers). Organiser Kevin Tye (07### ######).
Saturday and Sunday late roll-up: meet in bar 08.30am, 08.45am tee. £5 entry - pays out 50% of pot to first place, 50% is invested in a mid-season drink up. Organiser Lorenzo Ercoli (07### ######)
Saturday lunch time Swindle: meet in the bar at 11.30am, noon tee. £5 entry - pays out 1st, 2nd, 3rd (dependent upon numbers). Organiser Byron Frigot (07### ######)

Not saying you're wrong, but you can see how it gives the impression that I took can't you? It certainly looks like weekend roll-ups that you have to pay to enter. As I said, I don't mind a roll-up for people who want to join and play with others, that's a good thing, but this just feels like roll-ups monopolising the entire Saturday a little bit. I wouldn't even mind the three-tee thing to get everyone in at lunch if they kept it to the morning, as we usually play later. In the members survey back in October I simply suggested that they do their three-tee roll-ups all in the morning and bring in tee booking for the afternoons, but who knows if they'll take anything from that.
 

cliveb

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Here's the bit of the email that I didn't post earlier:

The weekend roll-ups are open to all seven-day members.
Saturday and Sunday early roll-up: meet in bar 07.45am, 08.00am tee. £2 entry - pays out 1st, 2nd, 3rd (dependant on numbers). Organiser Kevin Tye (07### ######).
Saturday and Sunday late roll-up: meet in bar 08.30am, 08.45am tee. £5 entry - pays out 50% of pot to first place, 50% is invested in a mid-season drink up. Organiser Lorenzo Ercoli (07### ######)
Saturday lunch time Swindle: meet in the bar at 11.30am, noon tee. £5 entry - pays out 1st, 2nd, 3rd (dependent upon numbers). Organiser Byron Frigot (07### ######)

Not saying you're wrong, but you can see how it gives the impression that I took can't you? It certainly looks like weekend roll-ups that you have to pay to enter. As I said, I don't mind a roll-up for people who want to join and play with others, that's a good thing, but this just feels like roll-ups monopolising the entire Saturday a little bit. I wouldn't even mind the three-tee thing to get everyone in at lunch if they kept it to the morning, as we usually play later. In the members survey back in October I simply suggested that they do their three-tee roll-ups all in the morning and bring in tee booking for the afternoons, but who knows if they'll take anything from that.
Ok, those are certainly a new thing. It looks to me as if some people have decided to try and ensure anyone on their own who wants to play knows there will be a roll up they can join.
Maybe they've been set up to try and integrate new members who aren't familiar with the way the weekends used to work. But my gut feel is that they must be informal ones. The existence of those roll ups won't prevent others from playing. If they became so popular that they monopolised all available tee slots, I'm pretty sure the club would step in and do something about it.
 

Orikoru

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Ok, those are certainly a new thing. It looks to me as if some people have decided to try and ensure anyone on their own who wants to play knows there will be a roll up they can join.
Maybe they've been set up to try and integrate new members who aren't familiar with the way the weekends used to work. But my gut feel is that they must be informal ones. The existence of those roll ups won't prevent others from playing. If they became so popular that they monopolised all available tee slots, I'm pretty sure the club would step in and do something about it.
Yeah, I hope I'm just overreacting due to the tone of the email and we'll be able to carry on as we normally do. Would be better without the fiver fee I think, as you say, it would be nice then for new members who are wandering around looking for someone to play with, but if that was me I wouldn't want to pay another fiver each time to get a game.
 

sunshine

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It has decimated the roll ups which aren't always able to get times together as it's strictly first come first served.
Surely that's down to the pandemic rather than the booking process, as most clubs banned roll ups coming out of lockdown? After 2 years without roll ups, it will probably take the whole of this year to rebuild the reputation of the roll up.

I don't understand why clubs don't just reserve a few tee times for the roll up every week (number of tee times depends on popularity). In my view a roll up stops working when you have more than about 25 people, because the gap between the first group and the last group becomes too big.

booked times all the time which... is ripping the soul of the club apart
Little bit melodramatic.

Golf takes 4 hours, it takes a long time and everyone has planned it in advance. Even the old boys that dislike booking have planned to spend most of the day at the club. Booking a tee time is no inconvenience when you've already decided you're going to be playing golf.

If people are struggling to get tee times, that's more likely due to too many members than the booking system.
 
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