Golf Juice

[Deleted member 15344]

I don't have Sky (phew) but I was watching a Buzza Golf Vlog last night and afterwards a link came up for Crossfield travelling to this event, yes really! (and I thought that watching paint dry was boring, I urge you not to watch it should you stumble across it) and then bits of the making of the event, these mostly featuring Crossfield.
I felt embarrassed for everybody there, this is out there now and there's no getting away from it for the presenters.

As for encouraging people to take up golf; assuming what I saw was going to be a part of the show, then anybody who has never played before will think it involves riding round on stand-on buggies waving to people, hitting Happy Gilmore type drives and generally acting like a prize dick, they'll be sorely disappointed should they go to a golf course.
Talk about further dragging down the image of golf...

So for non golfers it's a total fail and for golfers it's a total fail.

When will people finally realise that golf always has been, and always will be, a game primarily played by the middle aged to elderly who have the time, the patience and enough spare money to play it and start to target that audience?

Younger players who want to play still will play (and I hope be made very welcome) but golf will never be a sport with street cred.

So instead of trying to improve the image and trying to make the game a bit more fun for people and trying to improve the numbers of younger people the governing bodies do nothing and let it continue to be a sport for old people ?

Whilst the program may well not appeal to everyone their idea of trying to make the sport seem more fun should be applauded whilst the application was lacking a little.

I want to see more younger people play the game , I want to see the image of the game appeal to more than the past demographic

Golf has suffered in the past decade with constant falling numbers and clubs closing down all over the place - that will keep happening if younger people aren't attracted to the sport

 

[drdel]

So instead of trying to improve the image and trying to make the game a bit more fun for people and trying to improve the numbers of younger people the governing bodies do nothing and let it continue to be a sport for old people ?

Whilst the program may well not appeal to everyone their idea of trying to make the sport seem more fun should be applauded whilst the application was lacking a little.

I want to see more younger people play the game , I want to see the image of the game appeal to more than the past demographic

Golf has suffered in the past decade with constant falling numbers and clubs closing down all over the place - that will keep happening if younger people aren't attracted to the sport

This is fine except that 'widen the appeal' to youngsters and a broader demographic will mean dumbing down because that's what happens when market forces are the simpler driver. Why do we seek to make things easy to apparently appeal to youngsters. Kid I know are just as open to being motivated and interested by competition.

I'd wager you also agree with school that give everyone prizes at sports day because we don't want to create winners and losers

The challenge is to appeal without dumbing down which is the cheap solution that this programme has chosen. This programme was poorly made on a low budget and had nothing to do with widening the appeal of golf but everything to do with filling the 'air time' on a low budget.

Don't kid yourself with seeking higher ideals - that's just self justifying rubbish. If broadcasters had the real interest of the sport in mind it would not have been shown on a dedicated golf channel because you're preaching to the converted. It would have been broadcast in a 'main' slot.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

This is fine except that 'widen the appeal' to youngsters and a broader demographic will mean dumbing down because that's what happens when market forces are the simpler driver. Why do we seek to make things easy to apparently appeal to youngsters. Kid I know are just as open to being motivated and interested by competition.

I'd wager you also agree with school that give everyone prizes at sports day because we don't want to create winners and losers

The challenge is to appeal without dumbing down which is the cheap solution that this programme has chosen. This programme was poorly made on a low budget and had nothing to do with widening the appeal of golf but everything to do with filling the 'air time' on a low budget.

Don't kid yourself with seeking higher ideals - that's just self justifying rubbish. If broadcasters had the real interest of the sport in mind it would not have been shown on a dedicated golf channel because you're preaching to the converted. It would have been broadcast in a 'main' slot.

Can you explain "dumbing down" in regards golf please

Golf has an old mans stuffy image - that isn't appealing to many people who would be looking to take up a sport along with costs

The programme wasn't about filling a time slot it was attempting to create a programme that could change a perceived image of the game of golf - they can only apologise for the limited budget - unfortunately all the millions of pounds in the sport doesn't go down just straight to the players so they could only work with what they had and they have worked very hard for a good couple of years to get it going - alternatively they could do nothing or all the people slating could offer their obvious skills in media to help them out.

Or then again maybe it's easier to be a descending voice than it is to do something about any issues yourself

 

[Pin-seeker]

So instead of trying to improve the image and trying to make the game a bit more fun for people and trying to improve the numbers of younger people the governing bodies do nothing and let it continue to be a sport for old people ?

Whilst the program may well not appeal to everyone their idea of trying to make the sport seem more fun should be applauded whilst the application was lacking a little.

I want to see more younger people play the game , I want to see the image of the game appeal to more than the past demographic

Golf has suffered in the past decade with constant falling numbers and clubs closing down all over the place - that will keep happening if younger people aren't attracted to the sport

So to make the game more appealing to kids let's make them believe that it's ok the act like an idiot on the course.

Should be interesting when they get there & are told to tuck their shirt in & remove their cap in the clubhouse.

But at least they'll have a laugh having the buggie races 👍🏻

 

[Pin-seeker]

Can you explain "dumbing down" in regards golf please

Golf has an old mans stuffy image - that isn't appealing to many people who would be looking to take up a sport along with costs

The programme wasn't about filling a time slot it was attempting to create a programme that could change a perceived image of the game of golf - they can only apologise for the limited budget - unfortunately all the millions of pounds in the sport doesn't go down just straight to the players so they could only work with what they had and they have worked very hard for a good couple of years to get it going - alternatively they could do nothing or all the people slating could offer their obvious skills in media to help them out.

Or then again maybe it's easier to be a descending voice than it is to do something about any issues yourself

So the next time you are slating someone one here (let's say the next England manager,or Wengers next signing) why not give them a ring and offer you obvious skills in football management?

Did you get in touch with Chris Evans recently to offer advice on how he could have presented TG better?
Or did you just slate it on here at EVERY opportunity??

Good old hypocrite Phil strikes again 😣

 

[Crow]

Phil, like it or not, golf is a game played primarily by older people.

Golf's image, to quote one of the sport's greats, is what it is.

People who play golf find it enjoyable, why try to make it "a bit more fun" to attract people who don't like the game in its established form? It would be better thinking up a new sport, I know, how about footgolf?

Golf is not a glamour sport, it shouldn't be pimped up to make it appear something it isn't.

I too would like to see more younger players but this show isn't going to attract them. The young have been golf's target audience for years, I've nothing against the young playing golf, on the contrary I'm all for it but I don't see the need to change the game to attract them, golf has enough qualities as it is, but those qualities won't appeal to everybody.
If they don't appeal enough for newcomers to dedicate the time and cost involved then golf isn't for them, it's as simple as that.

You're right, golf has suffered falling numbers over the past decade, during which time the sport has focused on attracting younger players.
Perhaps trying to attract a broader demographic, including "stuffy" old men, would increase participation. Is that really your view of the older generation?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Phil, like it or not, golf is a game played primarily by older people.

Golf's image, to quote one of the sport's greats, is what it is.

Doesn't mean it can't change and many clubs are trying to change such an image - or should they not bother ?

People who play golf find it enjoyable, why try to make it "a bit more fun" to attract people who don't like the game in its established form? It would be better thinking up a new sport, I know, how about footgolf

And that way numbers will continue to decline - golf in it established form isn't flourishing

Golf is not a glamour sport, it shouldn't be pimped up to make it appear something it isn't.

I too would like to see more younger players but this show isn't going to attract them. The young have been golf's target audience for years, I've nothing against the young playing golf, on the contrary I'm all for it but I don't see the need to change the game to attract them, golf has enough qualities as it is, but those qualities won't appeal to everybody.
If they don't appeal enough for newcomers to dedicate the time and cost involved then golf isn't for them, it's as simple as that.

No one said anything about changing the game itself - it's changing an image the sport has that puts people off

The program is at least trying to do something different - just like when Soccer Am started

There is a number of people who want to play golf but are put of by the image the time and the cost

You're right, golf has suffered falling numbers over the past decade, during which time the sport has focused on attracting younger players.
Perhaps trying to attract a broader demographic, including "stuffy" old men, would increase participation. Is that really your view of the older generation?

And the number of younger people who have taken up the game has risen but still needs to do more - they are the future , get people in their 20's playing more , joining more clubs - it's why we changed our membership fees to make it more accessible for the younger generation

If stuffy old men want to play a sport - golf clubs are set up perfectly for them right now

 

[Crow]

Doesn't mean it can't change and many clubs are trying to change such an image - or should they not bother ?

Might be controversial for me to say it Phil but no, I don't think that they should.
There's far too much worrying about image these days.

And that way numbers will continue to decline - golf in it established form isn't flourishing

But would numbers continue to fall if we tried to attract a broader demographic, including those most likely to be able dedicate the time and cost?

No one said anything about changing the game itself - it's changing an image the sport has that puts people off

There is a number of people who want to play golf but are put of by the image the time and the cost

The image "is what it is", golf is a slow game and requires a lot of time and patience, to those who don't enjoy and appreciate it's qualities it will always be dull and boring.

How do you know that there are a number of people who want to play but are put off by the image the time and the cost?
If people are worried about golf's (or is it their own?) image and don't have the time or can't cover the cost then maybe they could try something else a bit cooler that costs less and is quicker, I know, footgolf!

And the number of younger people who have taken up the game has risen but still needs to do more - they are the future , get people in their 20's playing more , joining more clubs - it's why we changed our membership fees to make it more accessible for the younger generation

If stuffy old men want to play a sport - golf clubs are set up perfectly for them right now

I applaud your and many other club's reducing their membership fees at the younger end to attract those who are less financially flush but IMHO the younger generation are not golf's saviour and more effort should be spent on attracting all ages.

Your last statement might be a joke (I hope it is and that it's not actually your view that older men are stuffy) but you encapsulate my argument in that golf attracts older players. It's a sport where their lessening powers do not prevent them from competing, with young and old!

I could make a contrasting argument for another sport, skateboarding for instance, a minority sport with an image that focuses on the young. Lets change it a little to attract older participants. Take away those horrible graphics on the boards and make them in a nice shade of beige, limit the speed of the boards to 2 mph, nice floral displays around the edge of the skate park. Skateboarding popularity is waning, it must attract the older generation to survive.

 

[Crow]

Oh no, I've just realised that I'm allowing myself to get drawn into a game of "LP argument tennis", something that I swore I'd never do.

Phil, let's just say that we have differing opinions (but mine's right and yours is wrong) and leave it at that.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Might be controversial for me to say it Phil but no, I don't think that they should.
There's far too much worrying about image these days.

Golf Clubs are closing because people arent playing golf and arent joining golf clubs - the image right now focuses on a certain demographic - clubs understand that hence why they are trying to change that image - you maybe happy with it but a good deal arent.

But would numbers continue to fall if we tried to attract a broader demographic, including those most likely to be able dedicate the time and cost?

Golf clubs are trying to attract everyone - new golfers , returning golfers, young ones and old ones , couples , retired people , school kids - the full monty. Golf should be inclusive to all and not just the ones that can afford it or can have a whole day out to play the game

The image "is what it is", golf is a slow game and requires a lot of time and patience, to those who don't enjoy and appreciate it's qualities it will always be dull and boring.

Nothing is set in stone - im willing and so are many counties and golf unions to change that image.

How do you know that there are a number of people who want to play but are put off by the image the time and the cost?
If people are worried about golf's (or is it their own?) image and don't have the time or can't cover the cost then maybe they could try something else a bit cooler that costs less and is quicker, I know, footgolf!

Do you think thats a bit elitiest ? So young man you want to play golf but cant really afford it - oh well go play some other sport instead- all thats missing is the blazer.

Ill prefer to see what changes can be made to see if we can include as many people as possible that want to play a great social game

I applaud your and many other club's reducing their membership fees at the younger end to attract those who are less financially flush but IMHO the younger generation are not golf's saviour and more effort should be spent on attracting all ages.

Your last statement might be a joke (I hope it is and that it's not actually your view that older men are stuffy) but you encapsulate my argument in that golf attracts older players. It's a sport where their lessening powers do not prevent them from competing, with young and old!

I could make a contrasting argument for another sport, skateboarding for instance, a minority sport with an image that focuses on the young. Lets change it a little to attract older participants. Take away those horrible graphics on the boards and make them in a nice shade of beige, limit the speed of the boards to 2 mph, nice floral displays around the edge of the skate park. Skateboarding popularity is waning, it must attract the older generation to survive.

Golf does attract older players - hence why people are trying to change that to try and attract younger players as well.

It shouldnt matter what age someone is - but there is an image issue with golf and it needs to adapt

PS - we aren't arguing , it's just two people putting across opposing points of view of a subject that is quite relevant in golf and one being tackled by the EGU

 

[freddielong]

Honest question how does trying to make golf look like a game played by morons encourage new people to try the game?

For me golf's image is one of its biggest assets and doesn't need to be dumbed down like pretty much every other aspect of modern life.

 

[Imurg]

Do you think thats a bit elitiest ? So young man you want to play golf but cant really afford it - oh well go play some other sport instead- all thats missing is the blazer.

That's basic Economics Phil.. affordability is part of the choice of every lifestyle.
I'd loved to have done rally driving back in the day but it was pretty obvious I couldn't afford it so abandoned the idea.
Same with Golf - if you can't afford the time or the cost then, maybe, Golf isn't your game
Attracting people into the game is all well and good but they're going to drift away very quickly when they start adding up club subs, away days, new kit and all the other little costs that add up to a few hundred quid over time.
Unless you seriously change the whole structure of the game, a round of golf is going to take 3 hours as an absolute minimum ( including travel, drinks etc). Generally that time is going to be nearer 5 - 40 minutes to and from, 3 1\2-4 for the round and half an hour in the bar.
There's very little that can be done to reduce that without fundamentally changing the game. And if you start changing the game purely to attract new players you run the risk of alienating those that already play.
The Youth may be the future but the middle aged are the current and without them the club won't last long.
A program like Golf Juice, which I haven't seen but have read about, is only going to attract younger people. Not a bad thing but these people need to have some means of financing their new hobby. If they have - brilliant. With a round at a very basic course costing £20, they're going to need a fair bit aren't they.. Joining the club, although substantially cheaper for them, is still a fair chunk of cash.
Society, these days, has become much more instant. Things have to happen now.
Golf takes time to get to a reasonable level. Very few get to single figures in 3-5 years, hell, most don't ever get anywhere near it.
Attracting youngsters to the game isn't the hard part - it's keeping them that's difficult. There's so many other things to do that take less time and money and effort.
Golf takes time
Golf costs
Golf is hard

 

[Deleted member 15344]

That's basic Economics Phil.. affordability is part of the choice of every lifestyle.
I'd loved to have done rally driving back in the day but it was pretty obvious I couldn't afford it so abandoned the idea.
Same with Golf - if you can't afford the time or the cost then, maybe, Golf isn't your game
Attracting people into the game is all well and good but they're going to drift away very quickly when they start adding up club subs, away days, new kit and all the other little costs that add up to a few hundred quid over time.
Unless you seriously change the whole structure of the game, a round of golf is going to take 3 hours as an absolute minimum ( including travel, drinks etc). Generally that time is going to be nearer 5 - 40 minutes to and from, 3 1\2-4 for the round and half an hour in the bar.
There's very little that can be done to reduce that without fundamentally changing the game. And if you start changing the game purely to attract new players you run the risk of alienating those that already play.
The Youth may be the future but the middle aged are the current and without them the club won't last long.
A program like Golf Juice, which I haven't seen but have read about, is only going to attract younger people. Not a bad thing but these people need to have some means of financing their new hobby. If they have - brilliant. With a round at a very basic course costing £20, they're going to need a fair bit aren't they.. Joining the club, although substantially cheaper for them, is still a fair chunk of cash.
Society, these days, has become much more instant. Things have to happen now.
Golf takes time to get to a reasonable level. Very few get to single figures in 3-5 years, hell, most don't ever get anywhere near it.
Attracting youngsters to the game isn't the hard part - it's keeping them that's difficult. There's so many other things to do that take less time and money and effort.
Golf takes time
Golf costs
Golf is hard

Over the last 3/4 years we have gone from 2 members aged between 18 and 30 to now just under 50

We have introduce many various financial schemes that hasn't affected the club's financial structure but allowed us to offer reductions to various ages

All those members after a year or so have become full members and now fully integrated into the golf club

If a club wants to look past the present and have the vision to find ways to attract the players and then keep them then it will happen and our results over the years are proof of that - on top of that we have also introduced academy and get into golf memberships which includes loans of clubs and scheme were members look to give old golf clubs away - also get vouchers to purchase items within their scheme

On the course we have reduced medals and increased more team comps plus all weekend comps are available to all ages and male and female

Our club always had a stigma attached to it that it was a stuffy members club - because of the work done we now have a full membership ( actually over full ) with a clubhouse bursting with activity plus a waiting list which 90% are under the age of 30

Golf clubs can attract everyone to the game if they are willing to do th hard work to change to perceived image and attitude.

 

[Crow]

Over the last 3/4 years we have gone from 2 members aged between 18 and 30 to now just under 50

I'm not rejoinng the argument but the above is one of the most shocking things you've posted on this thread (if true) which maybe explains your slanted views.

 

[Imurg]

That's really good...
But don't forget that Leighton Buzzard's in a reasonably affluent part of the country with a good size catchment area and is close to a large club that closed recently. Not saying you haven't worked hard, you obviously have. Clubs in other parts of the country that are populated by those with lower earning/lower disposable income are not going to have it so easy.
Fully applaud what LB has done though it will be interesting to see how many are still around in 2-3 years

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I'm not rejoinng the argument but the above is one of the most shocking things you've posted on this thread (if true) which maybe explains your slanted views.

What's shocking about it ? I think at one stage I was one of the youngest in the club - I know I'm the youngest committee member they have had

We had a big gap in members at certain age and looked to find a way to encourage them to take up the game - same with working ladies , put comps on at the weekends that they can play in

And Imurg there are a lot of young people in LB that work in and around London that would like to play golf but because of house prices and travel prices in the area didn't have mountains of disposable income and we recognised that

The people that are now members have all paid their joining fee as well

 

[Crow]

What's shocking about it ? I think at one stage I was one of the youngest in the club - I know I'm the youngest committee member they have had

We had a big gap in members at certain age and looked to find a way to encourage them to take up the game - same with working ladies , put comps on at the weekends that they can play in

And Imurg there are a lot of young people in LB that work in and around London that would like to play golf but because of house prices and travel prices in the area didn't have mountains of disposable income and we recognised that

The people that are now members have all paid their joining fee as well

Oh Phil, you make me laugh!
You're putting the case for encouraging younger members and then you ask what's shocking about a club only having 2 members in the 18 to 30 age bracket? I can only assume that it's bait so that you can come back and say that this is typical of golf clubs across the land?

Again I've broken my resolve and posted in reply to a never ending LP "just two people putting across opposing points of view".
So this time, for real, I'm out of this thread.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Oh Phil, you make me laugh!
You're putting the case for encouraging younger members and then you ask what's shocking about a club only having 2 members in the 18 to 30 age bracket? I can only assume that it's bait so that you can come back and say that this is typical of golf clubs across the land?

Again I've broken my resolve and posted in reply to a never ending LP "just two people putting across opposing points of view".
So this time, for real, I'm out of this thread.

Am I missing something here ?

We had an issue where the demographic of our club showed that we had not very many people playing between the ages of 18-30 which was poor so we looked at what we could do to change that and now we have a healthy number who have joined the club - we worked with the EGU in helping encourage people and indeed one of members recieved an award because of all the work he did alongside the county and EGU ?

I'm not really sure what's the problem tbh ?

 

[Pin-seeker]

Phil You're not telling porkies again to back up your views are you? 😳

 

[drdel]

LP; you stated in reply to my post "...Or then again maybe it's easier to be a descending voice than it is to do something about any issues yourself."

Why be insulting when challenged ? You have absolutely no knowledge of what I do or do not do to encourage golf to a wider audience. Neither do you have any basis by which to question my knowledge of marketing, broadcasting or other professional matters - the Forum is about debating opinions to which we all have a free right. As you can see by the comments above you seem capable of turning off people from responding to a thread - their comments could well have taught us all something

Just because you choose to write in the style of stating your views as absolute facts for use mere mortals to worship does mean your seen as God.