Giving advice

[Colin L]

It is a statement of fact that he is in front of the markers. To tell him doesn't influence how he is going to play the hole or anything: it just saves him 2 strokes. Not to tell him and then to call him might well influence his immediate actions. Wedges and places where there is no sunshine come to mind.

 

[duncan mackie]

Back on the 'giving advice' front. I noticed that a FC was teeing up in in front of markers. Do I let him tee off then call him - or is warning him that he is in front of the markers a statement of fact - so not 'advice' or would my warning not be counted as advice as he has not put a ball in play. I told him.

Colin's answer, and just to highlight that not having a ball in play is irrelevant

 

[backwoodsman]

Sooo....

At the weekend we were playing as a three ball in the pro-shop comp. On one hole player A is bemoaning the fact that he's well short of the par 3 green and in trouble. Player B disagrees, saying something along the lines of "Rubbish, you're fine. A chip up the left side of the green and it'll roll round into the hole, or close at least. Should player C (me) have called him on advice? (Or would it have counted as indicating line of play?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Colin's answer, and just to highlight that not having a ball in play is irrelevant

I added the 'ball in play' bit just to show off a little that I am awasre that some 'stuff' can go on that is OK if a player does not have a ball in play that is not allowed if the player had a ball in play.

 

[Slab]

Sooo....

At the weekend we were playing as a three ball in the pro-shop comp. On one hole player A is bemoaning the fact that he's well short of the par 3 green and in trouble. Player B disagrees, saying something along the lines of "Rubbish, you're fine. A chip up the left side of the green and it'll roll round into the hole, or close at least. Should player C (me) have called him on advice? (Or would it have counted as indicating line of play?

I think as described it would be covered by indicating line of play:

8-2. Indicating Line of Play
a. Other Than on Putting Green

Except on the putting green, a player may have the line of play indicated to him by anyone, but no one may be positioned by the player on or close to the line or an extension of the line beyond the hole while the stroke is being made. Any mark placed by the player or with his knowledge to indicate the line must be removed before the stroke is made.

Edit: although the bit I've bolded might take it beyond whats deemed as indicating line of play (which was prob your question)....Colin, Duncan et al, thoughts?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I think as described it would be covered by indicating line of play:

8-2. Indicating Line of Play
a. Other Than on Putting Green

Except on the putting green, a player may have the line of play indicated to him by anyone, but no one may be positioned by the player on or close to the line or an extension of the line beyond the hole while the stroke is being made. Any mark placed by the player or with his knowledge to indicate the line must be removed before the stroke is made.

Edit: although the bit I've bolded might take it beyond whats deemed as indicating line of play (which was prob your question)....Colin, Duncan et al, thoughts?

A little ambiguous as quoted since the Except on the putting green could refer to the player or the ball - or both. So in this scenario is Player B allowed to indicate the line of play for Player A for the time A's ball is through the green but may not indicate line taking what will happen on the green into account.

So Player B could identfy a point at the boundary of fringe and green for A to play for - and this point can take into account what B thinks will happen on the green - but B could not give any explicit advice to A on what he thinks will happen to A's ball on the green. Likewise B could not stand on or behind the green and indicate a point for A to play for.

 

[Colin L]

Sooo....
"Rubbish, you're fine. A chip up the left side of the green and it'll roll round into the hole, or close at least. Should player C (me) have called him on advice? (Or would it have counted as indicating line of play?

I find this a difficult area - giving advice/indicating line of play - but feel fairly clear that this is advice on two counts. Firstly telling the player what kind of shot ("a chip") and secondly saying what he can expect the ball to do ("It'll roll round into the hole, or close at least"). Had he said, a) "Play up the left side of the green," or b) "The green slopes left to right" he would simply have been a) indicating the line of play or b) giving factual information.

The distinction between on or off the putting green in the rule refers to where the player's ball is to be played from.

 

[Foxholer]

Seems like advice to me!

Though, apart from with certain folk/situations (yes, I'm a hypocrite), I'd be inclined to forget I heard it if possible.

I might well mention. either there or later, to be careful about saying such things as they could be construed as advice.

 

[CMAC]

apart from the vagaries of the rules I feel a huge dollop of common sense would help in all these situations.

I was called on teeing from the yellows on a par 3 during a comp (yellows and whites were right beside each other on this tee), my FC's spotted it but didnt feel it was right to say until after I stuck a 4 iron to 4 feet:angry: very annoying

 

[duncan mackie]

I think I would just ignore it

If it had got to the stage of 'you should play an 9 iron to spot X, then chip left of the flag and roll in the left to right putt...' things have gone too far to be ignored - but as presented it comes over as a supportive, encouraging but ultimately meaningless wording designed to get the golfer going rather than influence their specific play of the hole/shot.

 

[Foxholer]

I was called on teeing from the yellows on a par 3 during a comp (yellows and whites were right beside each other on this tee), my FC's spotted it but didnt feel it was right to say until after I stuck a 4 iron to 4 feet:angry: very annoying

That's possibly because they weren't sure whether they were allowed to do so.

I've never had an issue about speaking up about this before FC tees off - or where in front of blocks.

 

[MashieNiblick]

Couple of thoughts on some issues here.

I've always thought that indicating line of play was really just about doing something to show someone where the green is or, if they have chosen a different route, where their chosen line is, (e.g if they are unsighted due to being behind a bush or dune) rather than telling someone they should play in a particular direction.

As for your FCs letting you tee off from the wrong marker I would be gutted if a PP or FC noticed but let me carry on. Even if they were worried (wrongly) about saying directly that you were teeing up in the wrong place, surely they might have at least realised that reminding someone which tee to use would not be "advice". They simply had to say "we're off the whites today".

 

[pogle]

Couple of thoughts on some issues here.

I've always thought that indicating line of play was really just about doing something to show someone where the green is or, if they have chosen a different route, where their chosen line is, (e.g if they are unsighted due to being behind a bush or dune) rather than telling someone they should play in a particular direction.

I share this view. The definition of line of play includes the words "is the direction the player wishes his ball to take..." . I interpret that as implying the player has to know the line but just can't see it. E.g. playing over a high sane dune or from a deep bunker where the flag is hidden. I don't interpret indicating line of play as the line a fellow competitor thinks the player should play.

I can't find a decision that clarifies this and I've heard that there are official (i.e USGA or R&A) statements that tell me I'm wrong in my interpretation, but have yet to see anything that confirms this or hear it from someone whose opinion I trust.