Gender free golf

[Capella]

I’d love to play off the red’s!! 

Have you ever tried it? Not in a comp, obviously, but on a quiet evening when no one is watching? You should. It is like playing a completely different course.

 

[Grant85]

I think what tee you play off should reflect your ability rather than your gender.

Especially now now that they are introducing much higher handicaps.

 

[patricks148]

Have you ever tried it? Not in a comp, obviously, but on a quiet evening when no one is watching? You should. It is like playing a completely different course.

i have, 4 more par 5's than the men, and 1000 yards shorter. plus two of the existing par 5s are easily reachable in two with a short iron. and all the par 3 are at least 30 yards shorter making a couple of them a wedge rather than a long iron on a couple. some of the bunkers you can carry quite easily. one of the other guys who did it with me shot 9 under par (ladies par) and i think i was at least 5.

it was all about the distance difference TBH

 

[Capella]

As I said, tees should be rated for both genders. But they still have to be rated massively differently for both genders. And even then ... let's say the shorter hitting male seniors do the sensible thing and tee off from the most forward tees, which allows them to reach at least most of the holes in regulation again. Where do the shorter hitting female seniors go? My mum hits her driver about 130 yards on a good drive. Her longest club off the fairway is a hybrid (or a 5-wood, but there is not that much in it) which carries about 100 yards. And she is really not alone in this. Most of her fellow senior ladies hit it similar distances.

The number of lady players who can play even off the yellows, let alone the whites, and having any chance of reaching greens in regulation is minimal. We are talking young category 1 players and better. If you are very lucky, your club has one or two of those. And seriously, as long as you cannot, even with your best shots, reach a green in reg, why would you ever consider moving futher back to another tee (except for a fun challenge in a social round, maybe)? So yes, by all means, rate all tees for women, but really don't expect too many to be able to reasonably play off them.

 

[jim8flog]

I play a reasonable amount of mixed golf and would agree with the comment that 'big' hitting lady golfers are quite rare. I think there a 5 such ladies at our club.

A lot of the ladies I play with fairly regularly all struggle off the reds and virtually all of them have handicaps in the mid teens upwards. Most would not put it past the angle of the doglegs if they played off the yellows.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I think the point here is giving options. I asked at my club last year what the lowest h/c lady was. The answer was around the 15 mark but most are over 20, many over 30 I suspect. They would all choose to play off the reds as the course is long over the yellows and very long over the whites. However, next week a single figure h/c may join and she may want the challenge of the yellow or white tees. I don't see why she should be denied that. The point is not to force ladies to play a longer course, the point is to give the option.

 

[ademac]

I think the point here is giving options. I asked at my club last year what the lowest h/c lady was. The answer was around the 15 mark but most are over 20, many over 30 I suspect. They would all choose to play off the reds as the course is long over the yellows and very long over the whites. However, next week a single figure h/c may join and she may want the challenge of the yellow or white tees. I don't see why she should be denied that. The point is not to force ladies to play a longer course, the point is to give the option.

Exactly

 

[dewsweeper]

Have you ever tried it? Not in a comp, obviously, but on a quiet evening when no one is watching? You should. It is like playing a completely different course.

I second that Capella.
You may recall we played off the Red tees at Warrington and it was a first for me.
I enjoyed the experience .
As an ageing golfer I struggle to enjoy the White medal course because I have to think my way round the course to utilise my generous shot allowance.
I have never thought thinking on a golf course came readily to me !!!!

 

[Dasit]

The women’s tees at my club are always in pristine condition while the men’s are a disgrace

Maybe because the men’s tees are used maybe 20 times as often

 

[FairwayDodger]

I think the point here is giving options. I asked at my club last year what the lowest h/c lady was. The answer was around the 15 mark but most are over 20, many over 30 I suspect. They would all choose to play off the reds as the course is long over the yellows and very long over the whites. However, next week a single figure h/c may join and she may want the challenge of the yellow or white tees. I don't see why she should be denied that. The point is not to force ladies to play a longer course, the point is to give the option.

This is it in a nutshell and not just for women. Rate all tees for both genders and encourage people to play from wherever suits their game. Might even get better quality and positioned tees for the reds as well instead of the afterthought they seem to be at many clubs.

 

[94tegsi]

Agree with most here, rate all tees appropriately and base off ability.

Last week I played twice, on both days there was a different lady in the group behind me driving the ball 270 yards playing off the reds, which just made the course too easy for them.
One of the ladies drove the green from the 275yard tee while I was on the green. It carried to the front edge..

 

[FairwayDodger]

Agree with most here, rate all tees appropriately and base off ability.

Last week I played twice, on both days there was a different lady in the group behind me driving the ball 270 yards playing off the reds, which just made the course too easy for them.
One of the ladies drove the green from the 275yard tee while I was on the green. It carried to the front edge..

Exactly. One of the issues, I think, for women's golf is the massive range of distances some hit it making it hard to pick one tee position that suits all. Those women could play easily off the whites but plenty of others would struggle to even reach the fairways from there.

I've frequently played with someone hitting driver on a par 3 when I've got a short iron or even a wedge. The handicap system can cope with people playing off different tees so why not both allow and encourage it?

 

[IanM]

I remember seeing a sign on the first tee of a course in America... looked a bit like this


Tee Recommendations: Enjoy the game!
Black Tees: Handicaps <5
White Tees: Handicaps 6-12
Blue Tees: Handicaps 13-20
Yellow Tees: Handicaps >20

Ok, I night have the parameters wrong, but you get the idea. No mention of gender.

 

[Jacko_G]

More importantly, will it speed up play or slow it down?

Golf is slow enough at times without players of limited ability playing off tees not suited to their ability.

 

[ademac]

I know for certain that my wife would want to compete at the highest level possible and not want to be stuck just having to play with the 'ladies' all the time.

 

[duncan mackie]

I know for certain that my wife would want to compete at the highest level possible and not want to be stuck just having to play with the 'ladies' all the time.

In your opening posts you lay the blame on 'golf', and it's need to move forward (as you see it).

Personally I see it somewhat differently as all the mechanisms are available so any blame lies with specific clubs and/or sections - which is a good thing because it means that the issue can be resolved locally (and therefore stands a chance of being resolved!)

However, the reality is that you need the volume and, on most layouts, competence to put the theory into practice.

Whilst for men it's fairly straightforward (because the volumes are there and the membership evolves to become those competent to play from the competition tees of any particular course) this doesn't translate easily to moving the ladies further back from time to time. It is not unrealsitic to consider many clubs ladies sections as having few members capable for carrrying 180yds, let alone the 210 which is common to clubs like West Hill from their white tees) so you end up with a handful of players who could realistically navigate their way round - regardless of any handicap adjustment!
Currently this resolves itself in practice with good lady members practicing off the tees of their choice (simple club decision in theory!) and competing on appropriate course set ups in elite (ish) Open events - whilst it would be better for them to be able to compete more over longer courses its really down to their own ladies sections (who understandably will look at the numbers...) there are other solutions (we have had a couple of ladies who turn up and play in the mens swindle off the mens comp tees for practice).

All of out tees are rated for men, including the 'red tees' and we play Q comps from all of them from time to time Blue, White, Yellow, Green and Red 74/73/71/69 & 67 In SSS terms. The ladies choose to play all their comps from the Reds - their choice not forced upon them.

 

[FairwayDodger]

More importantly, will it speed up play or slow it down?

Golf is slow enough at times without players of limited ability playing off tees not suited to their ability.

You already have this in every men’s medal played from the whites at every course in the country....

 

[FairwayDodger]

All of out tees are rated for men, including the 'red tees' and we play Q comps from all of them from time to time Blue, White, Yellow, Green and Red 74/73/71/69 & 67 In SSS terms. The ladies choose to play all their comps from the Reds - their choice not forced upon them.

Hmmm.... I think you're missing the point somewhat.

 

[duncan mackie]

Hmmm.... I think you're missing the point somewhat.

Enlighten me?

I'm saying that the game of golf doesn't provide the restriction, as suggested in the opening posts. So it comes down to an individual club and/or their sections - which is a completely different thing.

Btw, picking up on a point in one of your posts, the handicap rules don't currently permit different players playing from different tees within the same Q competition. In practice you can get round this by setting up multiple competitions for handicapping and distributing prizes any way you wish.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

Exactly. One of the issues, I think, for women's golf is the massive range of distances some hit it making it hard to pick one tee position that suits all. Those women could play easily off the whites but plenty of others would struggle to even reach the fairways from there.

I've frequently played with someone hitting driver on a par 3 when I've got a short iron or even a wedge. The handicap system can cope with people playing off different tees so why not both allow and encourage it?

I don't think this is just womens golf, it is not based on gender at all. Its a problem in mens and womens golf, different people hit it different distances.

I have played with men who only hit the ball 150-180 yards with a driver, to some that hit it well over 300 yards. Same as some women hit it 125-150 yards with a driver and some can hit it over 250 yards.

As I posted before I think tees should be based on ability or choice but I would hate to then see people excluded when comps take place as they can not make carrys for instance and would it mean in comps people would play from different tees and SSS/slope would adjust it, what happens in USA now in club comps ?.