Game improvement/Better Player Myth?

[tsped83]

I’m going through a pre-Christmas club ho-ho-ho-ing (sorry) period at the moment, largely with irons. All year I’ve mostly played G25s which have been reasonably successful, if a little high flighted, but I’ve always wanted to play a better looking iron per se, something a little smaller and with a traditional hosel. Pure ego and aesthetics, but I believe there’s a lot to be said for liking what you look at. (The wife for example, in case she’s reading).

Being a 16hcp, according to the manufacturers, I would be solidly placed in the ‘game improvement’ iron bracket, a la G25, Speedblade, XR, Vapor Speed etc. However, whilst these products are undoubtedly sound with bags of forgiveness, they don’t appeal. I would also consider that my iron striking is better than my handicap suggests, where as my driving and short game is noticeably worse!

Now, the irons that do appeal are the Wilson M3, Callaway Apex, AP2, i25 etc. Loosely defined as ‘Better Player’ irons. I can honestly say that I would not class myself as such a player, but have reasonable confidence in my iron striking to think I can hit these with some degree of success.

So, the question/point I’m trying to make is how much of a distinction is there between game improvement and better player irons? The G25s were forgiving for sure, but a horrible swing is still a horrible swing and thin/fat shots still ended up more often than not out of position. Is this categorisation over played by manufacturers to encourage us down a certain path to purchase? Can the forgiveness between say the G25 and i25 be that noticeable as to have a detrimental impact upon your game when struck poorly? Or am I just rambling incoherently?

Over to you.

Cheers

 

[jdpjamesp]

The way I see it, a large amount of this is marketing guff. What goes on in your head is a massive part of the game. Go and get fitted and buy the clubs that give you the confidence to go and play well Who cares who they're 'designed' for!

 

[philly169]

I had these thoughts before I bought my current irons, I was 21 handicapper playing game improvement Mizuno MX950's. I decided I wanted a better, smaller iron so invested in the MP59's. When I went to try them at DG I was told I wouldn't get on with them as they are for lower handicap players which is tosh.

I'm a solid iron striker, my handicap of 17 doesn't reflect that. If you like the look and try them out and like them go for it. I'm really not into big cavity back clubs. Glad I made the move.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

There are plenty of high(er) handicappers out there that strike the ball very well but are let down by other areas of their game. Just because you play off 8, 18 or 28, it doesn't mean you have to use a particular type of club. If you can strike the ball well with a club that suits your eye then it will be fine. You can work on the slice, hook, short game or whatever it is that is keeping your handicap high :thup:

 

[One Planer]

I bought a set of Mizuno MP32 irons playing off 24.

Along with the rest of my bag, got me down to 18 over 2 seasons.

After that, I went and got custom fitted for my Mizuno MP63's. I still have them in my bag 2 seasons later and my (exact) handicap is now 13.7.

To be honest, the irons are only as good as the swing you put on them. The MP63's are surprisingly forgiving for the type of club, but if you hit an absolute shocker, you know it.

I would imagine the same in any iron type to be honest.

Are you looing into the new or second hand market?

 

[Curls]

Before I begin I have to say that if you have the money and you fancy something shiney, go for it, its your money and your choice!

Like you I have been experiencing "off-season change my whole set and improve my game by buying shiney stuff syndrome". It is quite common. Fortunately I have a sort of cure, for myself anyway.

Some time ago a guy on here, Slicer 30 (not sure if he's still about?!), gave away a free mizuno 6 iron to one lucky punter. I happily paid postage and the price of a pint after being drawn out of a toy box (long story). It serves as a great reminder to me that though it is a truly beautiful thing and I love to look at it, I do not have the same degree of accuracy with it than I have with my G15 6 iron. I consider myself to be a reasonable ball striker, nothing special I don't think it's the strongest part of my game, but I'd expect to hit a green at 160-170 with a 6 iron maybe 6 or 7/10? Guess, I dont keep stats or data.

At the range aiming at a flag I expect that would be down around 3 or 4 with the mizuno, and that's with the built-in forgiveness of a mat. True I was fit for my G15s (when I began playing, before I even had a handicap), and the Mizuno is a standard R300 shaft club, but believe me the grass always seems greener until I catch one off centre and get the gentle slap to my ego I need.

What I'm saying is give them a go, but don't be afraid to admit that, for 4 to 6 or 7 iron at least, we need a bit of help and the GI irons definitely provide it, albeit at the expense of that lovely feel and control. When you catch it out of the middle. For all I know that's what you do regularly! Some impact tape would provide that info pretty quickly.

Not pooing on your parade, just my take on it. Like I said at the beginning, its an alluring prospect and if you have the cash, why not?

 

[sam85]

My first proper set of clubs were Mizuno mp59s and they got me from 21 to 13 in the space of 6 months. Iron play is probably the weakest part of my game so I decided to go and get fit with the idea that I needed something a bit more 'game improvementy'. I was fit for a set of Srixon Z545s and 8 moths later I'm still hovering around the 13 HC mark.

I don't regret changing clubs but the truth is there is no magic fix for a bad shot, but I definitely feel a lot more confident with my current clubs. I still can't get away with fats and thins, but slight mis hits with the Srixons will be a lot closer to target.

I did have a couple of rounds recently with my MP59s recently and I felt under a lot more pressure to strike them than the Srixons. It might just be psychological but for me I feel a whole lot happier with my 'game improvement' irons.

 

[jamielaing]

Whatever works for you works for you. I like to think I am a good ball striker and I play 'better player irons'. My handicap didn't come into the equation once when I bought these. If you like the club's looks it just feels right standing over it. This makes you more confident. If you find an iron that does that for you go for it. Get rid of the thoughts that you aren't good enough for the club, it's irrelevant in the process and will make you hit worse shots as you second guess it.

 

[the_coach]

bottom line OP you the one paying out the $'s - so your call - if you cannot resist the itch ......
but if it's more to just have 'better player clubs' sticking out of the bag for folks to see .....

it's true you gotta like the look of what you goin to play with .... but that said there also has to be some kinda objectivity factored into the decision if the overall aim is to play the game as well as possible

there's a tad more forgiveness in 'better player clubs' than there used to be - but not a whole bunch

miss center by just a 1/4" & the strike efficiency (CHS to BS) just won't be there - so shots may still be somewhere around 'online' to target but they will be a ways short a big percentage of the time as the flight will be a bunch weaker - plus as a generality with 'better player clubs' even shots struck reasonably well won't carry as far as the chunkier GI's

high/higher handicap index players may strike the ball reasonably well some of the time but the ratio of 'good to off' strike efficiency will be pretty large - no-one particularly likes to admit that ...... but for sure it's true

if you spent a few $'s to buy a can of foot/dry shampoo spray or roll of impact tape hit 5 balls with each of the current irons through the bag & look at the face impact patterns so at least you will know what exactly you getting into if you take the plunge & what your likely to be missing out on with the change

no doubting tough - with thin top lines, slimmer soles, smaller blade length, less chunky backs .... & shiny !!!! they do tend to look a whole lot better though

 

[One Planer]

bottom line OP you the one paying out the $'s - so your call - if you cannot resist the itch ......
but if it's more to just have 'better player clubs' sticking out of the bag for folks to see .....

it's true you gotta like the look of what you goin to play with .... but that said there also has to be some kinda objectivity factored into the decision if the overall aim is to play the game as well as possible

there's a tad more forgiveness in 'better player clubs' than there used to be - but not a whole bunch

miss center by just a 1/4" & the strike efficiency (CHS to BS) just won't be there - so shots may still be somewhere around 'online' to target but they will be a ways short a big percentage of the time as the flight will be a bunch weaker - plus as a generality with 'better player clubs' even shots struck reasonably well won't carry as far as the chunkier GI's

high/higher handicap index players may strike the ball reasonably well some of the time but the ratio of 'good to off' strike efficiency will be pretty large - no-one particularly likes to admit that ...... but for sure it's true

if you spent a few $'s to buy a can of foot/dry shampoo spray or roll of impact tape hit 5 balls with each of the current irons through the bag & look at the face impact patterns so at least you will know what exactly you getting into if you take the plunge & what your likely to be missing out on with the change

no doubting tough - with thin top lines, slimmer soles, smaller blade length, less chunky backs .... & shiny !!!! they do tend to look a whole lot better though

Question for you Coach on your comments.

Yourself playing to a very high amateur standard, have you ever considered playing a full blade iron?

 

[the_coach]

Question for you Coach on your comments.

Yourself playing to a very high amateur standard, have you ever considered playing a full blade iron?

have had what's in the bag now (irons) for a little over a year .... before that for around maybes some 8+ years played with Miz MP 33's which had been re shafted a bunch of times & the heads refinished a couple but finally they were worn out

replacements through LM trials were whittled down to MP4's or the Apex Pro's - Apex's delivered a little better numbers both through both pure strikes & overall consistency - guess that the reason they found their way into many Tour bags pretty quick both on the PGA & LPGA

but still got to strike center with the 4's or the Apex Pro's

 

[tsped83]

Are you looing into the new or second hand market?

Second hand for sure mate, which rules out a true fitting. There are 3 particular models I'm looking at, M3, Apex and i25.

Reading reviews across the net, all come with a over average forgiveness for 'better player' irons.....apparently.

 

[One Planer]

have had what's in the bag now (irons) for a little over a year .... before that for around maybes some 8+ years played with Miz MP 33's which had been re shafted a bunch of times & the heads refinished a couple but finally they were worn out

replacements through LM trials were whittled down to MP4's or the Apex Pro's - Apex's delivered a little better numbers both through both pure strikes & overall consistency - guess that the reason they found their way into many Tour bags pretty quick both on the PGA & LPGA

but still got to strike center with the 4's or the Apex Pro's

I would imagine it would be the same with all irons regarding centeredness of strike and optimum numbers, be that a blade or SGI iron.

I suppose it begs he question with irons is not how far you hit them, but how well you hit them.

 

[Hacker Khan]

I’m going through a pre-Christmas club ho-ho-ho-ing (sorry) period at the moment, largely with irons. All year I’ve mostly played G25s which have been reasonably successful, if a little high flighted, but I’ve always wanted to play a better looking iron per se, something a little smaller and with a traditional hosel. Pure ego and aesthetics, but I believe there’s a lot to be said for liking what you look at. (The wife for example, in case she’s reading).

Being a 16hcp, according to the manufacturers, I would be solidly placed in the ‘game improvement’ iron bracket, a la G25, Speedblade, XR, Vapor Speed etc. However, whilst these products are undoubtedly sound with bags of forgiveness, they don’t appeal. I would also consider that my iron striking is better than my handicap suggests, where as my driving and short game is noticeably worse!

Now, the irons that do appeal are the Wilson M3, Callaway Apex, AP2, i25 etc. Loosely defined as ‘Better Player’ irons. I can honestly say that I would not class myself as such a player, but have reasonable confidence in my iron striking to think I can hit these with some degree of success.

So, the question/point I’m trying to make is how much of a distinction is there between game improvement and better player irons? The G25s were forgiving for sure, but a horrible swing is still a horrible swing and thin/fat shots still ended up more often than not out of position. Is this categorisation over played by manufacturers to encourage us down a certain path to purchase? Can the forgiveness between say the G25 and i25 be that noticeable as to have a detrimental impact upon your game when struck poorly? Or am I just rambling incoherently?

Over to you.

Cheers

Over the course of a game probably not, or one shot at worse may be? Over the course of a season then it will mount up if you are not hitting the sweet spot the majority of the time. Suppose it's up to you if you value the looks/feel and how a better players iron makes you feel, over the potential improvement/forgiveness a game improver (silly name by the way as which golfer does not want to improve their game) iron gives you.

Having said that as golf is mostly played in your mind, the feel good factor of using a better players iron could over ride the improvement a GI iron gives you. But I am always struck by the fact that Crossfield uses game improvement irons, and he is not afraid to say that better players irons look/feel nicer when he tests them and he can stripe them on test, but over the long term he wants the additional help.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I have I25 and in my opinion they are suited to a vast array of handicaps. I did have G25 but aesthetically hated looking down on the thick top line over the short shots and chips/pitches and so changed. If I was the OP, I'd try as many makes and models as he can to see what suits his eye and his swing. From there narrow it down to a few and maybe test them on a launch monitor to see what differences there are in terms of spin, distances etc. There's no one fit and it's simply personal choice at the end of the day and having fun in the process of looking and enjoying whatever you go with

 

[moogie]

Second hand for sure mate, which rules out a true fitting. There are 3 particular models I'm looking at, M3, Apex and i25.

Reading reviews across the net, all come with a over average forgiveness for 'better player' irons.....apparently.

Have you ever considered Cleveland 588 CB.....??
Currently on clearance, and can be bought on eBay, brand new, 5-PW for only £179....!!
Great clubs

As are the 588 TT, at similar prices in places

 

[shewy]

A bit like you really in that I consider my irons the best part of my game. I trialled a set of blades earlier this year and hit them just fine, even the 3 iron. More traditional lofts so not as long, and being pretty short I went back to game improvement irons purely for the extra yards. But I wouldn't say they were any harder to hit.

 

[BubbaP]

Second hand for sure mate, which rules out a true fitting. There are 3 particular models I'm looking at, M3, Apex and i25.

Reading reviews across the net, all come with a over average forgiveness for 'better player' irons.....apparently.

You probably have your list, but maybe take a look at the 588 TTs. With the srixon-cleveland change I recently managed a custom fit for very good price. Would say they fit the forgiving/GI end of players also.

 

[MashieNiblick]

Having started playing when the only options were blades or Ping Eyes there is now a fantastic choice of good looking clubs that offer enough forgiveness for any reasonably competent player to play well with. You aren't talking about getting blades, which are a different proposition in my opinion, so go for it. Forget the labels, you'll find all sorts of players playing well with all sorts of clubs at every level from the Tour to 20 h/cappers.

 

[RustyTom]

I am in the same boat as you but a bit of a higher h/cap. Started the year at 24, got down to 18.5 now back up to 19.5

Started to really dislike the look of my irons, which made them less enjoyable to play so i longed for a better looking iron. I tried a few clubs out on a LM and had my heart set on some cobra fly Z+ irons or taylormade CB, then the following round I go out an shoot my best ever round of 9 over using my GI irons.

I think I'm going to try and enjoy the GI irons for the next month or two but if I can't then I'm going to get a set of better player irons just because they fit my eye more and I believe I will enjoy it more even if I do lose some forgivness.