From The Editor?

[GB72]

I am all for the idea of promoting in schools but I see another hurdle. How many can honestly say that certain sections of their club's would not rally against having a group of school kids using the facilities one or two afternoons a week, using the changing rooms or heaven forbid having kids in the clubhouse. How many cannot see complaints when the range, practice ground or putting green is occupied with a group of kids from the local school.I still feel that there are a lot more attitudes inside clubs that need to be addressed before the sport starts putting the word out that it is open and available to everyone. Golf does not need to change so much as some golfers do.

 

[BubbaP]

Lots of good thoughts in this thread. From own limited experience - had the children through crazy golf, pitch n putt, and par 3 course, short 9 hole course. All good but they never really were hooked in. Not coming from a golfing family myself I was keen not to over push it. After a gap had another crack last summer (cheap membership deal) and the step up to the main course still seemed significant. It is a hard game, esp when learning, which is much of its charm to those of us hooked, but as others have said there is a lot of competition in other activities out there for young uns.

 

[Siren]

For the life of me I dont understand why the big brands dont make cheap half starter sets. Sort of driver Hybrid 5/7/9 Sw Putter and make them half decent. If you start golf out as affordable and something everyone can get into then more will play.

If you start with a half set of TM clubs then surely you wil move onto a better set of TM clubs. Most people dont get custom fitted ( I undertstand why) So will more than likely stick with a particular brand.

 

[richart]

One of the problems with golf is it is so difficult to learn. When I did some tennis coaching the little kids, four years up, could hit the soft tennis balls, with the big light rackets, no problem. When kids much older, say 10 take up golf it is so difficult to hit a ball reasonably well, and a lot lose interest. Perhaps bigger balls which are easier to get in the air might be the answer ?

 

[GB72]

One of the problems with golf is it is so difficult to learn. When I did some tennis coaching the little kids, four years up, could hit the soft tennis balls, with the big light rackets, no problem. When kids much older, say 10 take up golf it is so difficult to hit a ball reasonably well, and a lot lose interest. Perhaps bigger balls which are easier to get in the air might be the answer ?

Or these non complying clubs that TM have mooted, perhaps they could throw everything they can to make a set easier to use and these are allowed up to a certain age or ability.

There is also the issue of kids growing out of clubs. Perhaps a guaranteed trade in value if you buy the next size up in the same brand.

 

[vkurup]

Picking up on a different issues - audience participation. One of the fundamental difference between golf and other sport is the fact that unlike other sports, golf is not played in an arena like space. This means you cannot generate the 'excitement' that you can do for games like cricket, footy, tennis etc. Hence moving to a shorter version of the game like IPL/T20, 5-a-side footy, extreme NFL etc will not be able to generate audience participation.

IMO, the only sport that comes close to this is motorsport like F1 or Rally sports. F1 is very similar - some key players, 4 days leading to big weekend, spectators are restricted to seeing a small part of a race. F1 has introduced changes like night racing in Singapore, KRS etc.

Golf is making some changes.. The caddy race in Phoenix 16th hole is interesting (though I think this wont fly with the Elf&Safety guys here). We are also seeing interesting players coming thru - Fowler, IJP, Bubba, Dubission?, Duffner etc. It just mixes things up and attracts the younger crowd. If I had a penny for people around the course now wearing or carrying clubs in Orange thanks to the Fowler effect. All this is good for the game.

To toss another idea, would it be possible to hook up some of the players or their caddies with microphones so they can talk thru what they are intending to do or why they chose to do something etc. Cricket/T20/IPL tries that and it can be interesting to hear what the players are thinking.

 

[G.U.R]

Golf clubs and Driving Ranges need to have summer camps where kids get a chance to hit a few balls speak to the professional at a reasonable price. From what I have seen at most clubs is that the Juniors are made up of kids whose parents are Golfers which is quite a narrow target area. Advertise these events get the kids with their parents in and let them hit a few balls, what would they loose on a weeday summer morning??

 

[GB72]

Part of the issue is going to be the cost. The pro is going to want paying for his time, the club needs someone to man the shop etc whilst he is off teaching kids and then the issue arises of how many people you need to manage and keep safe a group of kids. Then you have the fact that many driving ranges/practice areas can only take a relatively small number of kids hitting a ball at one time so you have the occupy the others who are not hitting balls and ensure that they remain safe. Then you have the fact that at my club in any event, many of the golfers who play midweek are of a mind not to want groups of kids running around the club. Then they will want to use the clubhouse and many of those have attitudes like pubs in the 70's where kids sat outside and were brought drinks etc and certainly were not allowed to set foot inside.

My concern is that clubs at present in both facilities and attitudes are not geared up for entertaining large groups of kids. As such, it would seem sensible to ensure that changes are made to this before having a mass marketing campaign which cannot be backed up with a good experience of the game.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Picking up on a different issues - audience participation. One of the fundamental difference between golf and other sport is the fact that unlike other sports, golf is not played in an arena like space. This means you cannot generate the 'excitement' that you can do for games like cricket, footy, tennis etc. Hence moving to a shorter version of the game like IPL/T20, 5-a-side footy, extreme NFL etc will not be able to generate audience participation.

IMO, the only sport that comes close to this is motorsport like F1 or Rally sports. F1 is very similar - some key players, 4 days leading to big weekend, spectators are restricted to seeing a small part of a race. F1 has introduced changes like night racing in Singapore, KRS etc.

Golf is making some changes.. The caddy race in Phoenix 16th hole is interesting (though I think this wont fly with the Elf&Safety guys here). We are also seeing interesting players coming thru - Fowler, IJP, Bubba, Dubission?, Duffner etc. It just mixes things up and attracts the younger crowd. If I had a penny for people around the course now wearing or carrying clubs in Orange thanks to the Fowler effect. All this is good for the game.

To toss another idea, would it be possible to hook up some of the players or their caddies with microphones so they can talk thru what they are intending to do or why they chose to do something etc. Cricket/T20/IPL tries that and it can be interesting to hear what the players are thinking.

Good point about audience participation/excitement.

Society nowadays is brought up seeking more quick instant gratification and exciting sporting action. And no matter how you dress it up, golf is not that. As an aficionado of the sport I really struggle to watch most tournaments on TV as it is a bit dull. If you think about it, what percentage of a 5 hour plus round from a golfer is something vaguely interesting actually happening that will engage a viewer, i.e. a shot has been hit and the ball is moving. 5%??? So you get TV flitting from one player to another and there just does not seem to be any coherence or narrative, it's difficult to get a story as it's just shot after shot. And this is even worse when you watch 'target golf' in the US.

No idea what the answer is other than to get youngsters hooked early, as I fear golf will just lose out to other sports as people get older.

 

[GB72]

Good point about audience participation/excitement.

Society nowadays is brought up seeking more quick instant gratification and exciting sporting action. And no matter how you dress it up, golf is not that. As an aficionado of the sport I really struggle to watch most tournaments on TV as it is a bit dull. If you think about it, what percentage of a 5 hour plus round from a golfer is something vaguely interesting that will engage a viewer actually happening, i.e. a shot has been hit and the ball is moving. 5%??? So you get TV flitting from one player to another and there just does not seem to be any coherence or narrative, it's difficult to get a story as it's just shot after shot. And this is even worse when you watch 'target golf' in the US.

No idea what the answer is other than to get youngsters hooked early, as I fear golf will just lose out to other sports as people get older.

I agree with that. Golf is really only a sport that you can watch if you know what is going on and are invested in the result enough to be excited about who wins.

Recently I have been to a couple of ice hockey matches. I have no idea what is going on for most of it but it is fast paced with a great atmosphere and plenty of bells and whistles so I have had a good time and want to find out more about the sport (though you would never get me on ice). Golf just cannot follow that. The crowds are encouraged to be quiet, there is no build up of excitement on the course and so, to a non fan, the whole event is boring and tiresome. Add to that, at a live event, the overall spectacle is not that great for an individual and you would be struggling to convert a non fan. My wife has slowly started to pick up on a few sports that she likes to watch (Ice Hockey being one) but however much I try, golf just does not float her boat.

It also does not help that the big names are hardly in this country. In most sports I follow, if I want to go and see the big names play in this country then I can. In golf, you may see the top UK Players 3-4 times this year.

 

[bladeplayer]

I agree with that. Golf is really only a sport that you can watch if you know what is going on and are invested in the result enough to be excited about who wins.

Recently I have been to a couple of ice hockey matches. I have no idea what is going on for most of it but it is fast paced with a great atmosphere and plenty of bells and whistles so I have had a good time and want to find out more about the sport (though you would never get me on ice). Golf just cannot follow that. The crowds are encouraged to be quiet, there is no build up of excitement on the course and so, to a non fan, the whole event is boring and tiresome. Add to that, at a live event, the overall spectacle is not that great for an individual and you would be struggling to convert a non fan. My wife has slowly started to pick up on a few sports that she likes to watch (Ice Hockey being one) but however much I try, golf just does not float her boat.

It also does not help that the big names are hardly in this country. In most sports I follow, if I want to go and see the big names play in this country then I can. In golf, you may see the top UK Players 3-4 times this year.

What would the cricket fans have thought at the beginning of the One dayers & the the T20 tho , surely it was of the same kind of quietness & correctness as we currently have in golf .. it appears to have worked for them

Your bang on regarding the lack of "big " named players in the country tho , that has to have an effect

 

[fundy]

I am all for the idea of promoting in schools but I see another hurdle. How many can honestly say that certain sections of their club's would not rally against having a group of school kids using the facilities one or two afternoons a week, using the changing rooms or heaven forbid having kids in the clubhouse. How many cannot see complaints when the range, practice ground or putting green is occupied with a group of kids from the local school.I still feel that there are a lot more attitudes inside clubs that need to be addressed before the sport starts putting the word out that it is open and available to everyone. Golf does not need to change so much as some golfers do.

We have it at our place and it is openly encouraged by pretty much every member I know.

One of our teaching pro's runs academy lessons mainly in school holidays but also some on weekend afternoons, they use the range, the chipping green, the putting green and sometimes even go out onto the course if its quiet enough (they usually play half length holes on the longer holes). Sadly, there seems to be an exceptionally low conversion rate from these sessions to junior members (to the point I believe we've pulled out of the junior league this year as we dont have enough juniors to make a team!) As someone has already mentioned, our club like many is in the middle of nowhere, so is 100% dependent on parents a) knowing about it and b) being prepared to take the kids to it.

The club has land (and plans) for an additional full 9 holes, there has recently been some talk that instead they may put an academy course of some sort on the land rather than a full 9 holes, which imo would be a better option in terms of the longevity of the game. The big issue I tend to find with par 3 and shorter courses is that invariably they arent kept to the same standards the main course is which then makes them less desirable even to those who are beginners at the game, just because the game is shorter the course should still be in similar condition.

 

[fundy]

What would the cricket fans have thought at the beginning of the One dayers & the the T20 tho , surely it was of the same kind of quietness & correctness as we currently have in golf .. it appears to have worked for them

Your bang on regarding the lack of "big " named players in the country tho , that has to have an effect

I find it amusing the references on this thread to T20 and how successful it has been and how great it is for cricket. There are plenty of people, myself partly included, who actually think it will be the death or near death of the sport. Whilst it has introduced a lot of people into the sport (as spectators) that wouldnt have necessarily attended before, it has come at a pretty large cost to the game generally.

Firstly, a lot of the T20 games have become evening games where the focus for a large proportion becomes more about the drinking and partying than actually the sport on show (is that what golf club members want golf to go towards?).

Secondly, these shorter format games have hugely increased the corruption within the sport, the more money that has come into the game and the much shorter timescale betting opportunities have opened up many avenues for those who want to corrupt (especially through the betting markets). Golf is one of if not the least corrupt sports, and part of this is related to the length of time it takes for an event (and that it is very difficult to make much money betting on someone to lose)

Thirdly, look at the state the "original" format of the game is in. Test cricket is dying, despite being the best format for the majority who have always been cricket lovers. Because it is not as financially viable as the shorter formats, test cricket is being more and more marginalised, whether that is actually what the fans want or not (money as always is king)

Fourthly, money first everything else second. There is currently a proposal going through which will change the way cricket is run, basically giving all the power to india, england and australia. Basically the 3 big boards are bullying the other countries into a situation where they have more control, a bigger share of revenues etc. They are reducing the revenues to developing countires, reducing playing opportunities for smaller nations, reducing the future tours plan etc, all which basically are bad for the worldwide game but good for their coffers.

Im not saying that changes in golf will cause the same problems but holding T20 up as a beacon and a model to follow is a very danger one imo, be very careful what you wish for

 

[bladeplayer]

I find it amusing the references on this thread to T20 and how successful it has been and how great it is for cricket. There are plenty of people, myself partly included, who actually think it will be the death or near death of the sport. Whilst it has introduced a lot of people into the sport (as spectators) that wouldnt have necessarily attended before, it has come at a pretty large cost to the game generally.

Firstly, a lot of the T20 games have become evening games where the focus for a large proportion becomes more about the drinking and partying than actually the sport on show (is that what golf club members want golf to go towards?).

Secondly, these shorter format games have hugely increased the corruption within the sport, the more money that has come into the game and the much shorter timescale betting opportunities have opened up many avenues for those who want to corrupt (especially through the betting markets). Golf is one of if not the least corrupt sports, and part of this is related to the length of time it takes for an event (and that it is very difficult to make much money betting on someone to lose)

Thirdly, look at the state the "original" format of the game is in. Test cricket is dying, despite being the best format for the majority who have always been cricket lovers. Because it is not as financially viable as the shorter formats, test cricket is being more and more marginalised, whether that is actually what the fans want or not (money as always is king)

Fourthly, money first everything else second. There is currently a proposal going through which will change the way cricket is run, basically giving all the power to india, england and australia. Basically the 3 big boards are bullying the other countries into a situation where they have more control, a bigger share of revenues etc. They are reducing the revenues to developing countires, reducing playing opportunities for smaller nations, reducing the future tours plan etc, all which basically are bad for the worldwide game but good for their coffers.

Im not saying that changes in golf will cause the same problems but holding T20 up as a beacon and a model to follow is a very danger one imo, be very careful what you wish for

I wouldnt have been aware of all the points you raised Fundy as i would be on the outside looking in , that is really interesting to read & is an eye opener to me .

if this was to be the case i would say the short term gain is definately not worth the long term consequences for the sport , i guess thw answer would be to take the "good" workable bits from other sports and apply them , somehow ..

I think skill challenges are fun to watch when i have seen them , so try build some fun around them some how

 

[vkurup]

I find it amusing the references on this thread to T20 and how successful it has been and how great it is for cricket. There are plenty of people, myself partly included, who actually think it will be the death or near death of the sport. Whilst it has introduced a lot of people into the sport (as spectators) that wouldnt have necessarily attended before, it has come at a pretty large cost to the game generally.

Agree... as I mentioned in my prev post, the IPL approach is probably not the best one for the game as it does not work for the format. However there are things that you can do to pep it up. You need players, spectators and competitions to find some innovation. I go back to the Phoenix open..
Not sure you can get many other than Bubba, IJP, Fowler do something like this.. http://youtu.be/dOFD-ipQ0pM

Interesting link... http://www.azcentral.com/sports/gol...-banned-at-waste-management-phoenix-open.html

True it will bring more spectators rather than actual player. But once you watch a game, you will look it up further or even encourage your kids to try... Never seen, never tried.

 

[JCW]

If you write this way in GM you will lose many readers , get your point about money going back into the game , more should go to each junior section at every club to promote this great game

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Golf clubs and Driving Ranges need to have summer camps where kids get a chance to hit a few balls speak to the professional at a reasonable price. From what I have seen at most clubs is that the Juniors are made up of kids whose parents are Golfers which is quite a narrow target area. Advertise these events get the kids with their parents in and let them hit a few balls, what would they loose on a weeday summer morning??

Interesting point. I first learned at the range in the middle of Sandown Park racecourse. An hour per day for a week tuition with a pro on the basics and a dustbin full of balls. We could stay and hit until the bin was empty. Great introduction and got me hooked.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Local pros are now doing an hour a week in local shoes are leighton - apparently it's now the most popular PE lesson

 

[MikeH]

When I'm not being logged out of the forum at random (it this just me?) I've been enjoying keeping up to date with this thread. Lots of interesting ideas and views being exchanged

A few more thoughts….

Par 3 courses
I agree this shortened time/less difficult experience offers much more accessible entry point to the game than the full length 18-hole course.

So more par 3/short courses, with cheap green fees, hire clubs to use, a more relaxed dress codes and a good wraparound experience (decent facilities/food and drink) could only help. However I believe something even more radical is needed to make the sort of step change we need to reverse the decline in participation

Big easy to hit clubs and adventure golf style have both been mentioned – I think that’s more like it…

Golf Foundation
As Fish said I’m a big supporter of this and have written several ed’s letters over the years highlighting their work and encouraging GM readers to donate a couple of quid (one of my clubs does this automatically via annual subs but the other two don’t) to the charity to help support the work they do.

The GF a great job of introducing kids to golf - mainly in a school setting - but something goes wrong under the present system (not the GF’s fault) as only a modest percentage go on to the ‘real’ game of golf. In my view this is the crux of the problem

PowerPlay
This was an idea to make golf more exciting (really with a view to making it a viable Tour event proposition) and then hoping clubs would become PP venues and host PP events as an occasional alternative to medals, stablefords.

I think it failed because it made an already tough game even tougher (its hard enough for most golfers to hit the green let alone go for a flag tucked away behind a bunker!) and among established golfers 18 hole rounds in traditional formats are still king so the desire to change wasn’t there.

Tradition
As a member of two of the oldest, most historic clubs in England, someone views themselves as a student of the history of the game, who enjoys playing foursomes, attending men only black tie dinners, drinking kummel until I cant speak and has no issue changing into a jacket and tie for lunch between rounds at places like Muirfield and Rye believe me, I get tradition. To me, it’s one of the big appeals of the game to me along with the honesty and integrity of the sport and the fact that brain often wins over brawn.

However to the outsider who might be interested in getting into golf traditions can seem baffling and/or intimidating. Over time I believe you can learn to appreciate the game’s traditions and accept golf’s many rules (be they on the course or in the club house) but at the entry point (I keep using that phrase because that’s the bit of the game about in eds letter) they are barriers to getting involved.

I think a significant percentage of posters in this thread are looking at the situation through the eyes of a person who is fully immersed in the game and probably has been for years.

It was very interesting to read vkurups post – who as a relative newcomer to the game has been through the process of ‘getting into golf’ quite recently. I doff my cap to him. That level of determination to overcome the barriers our game puts up is atypical in my view.

I suspect almost everyone who posts in the forum fits into the category of avid golfer (play on average once a week). This category is losing a few golfers but broadly speaking it’s doing OK. It’s the old 80/20 rule – 80% of golf is played by 20% and the 20% are the avids.

Looking at things from the perspective of an avid golfer can lead to an insular view of the game because the ‘problems’ avid golfers face are more along the lines of…
• I can’t get a good tee time in the medal
• The catering doesn’t start until 9am
• The depth of sand in the bunkers is inconsistent There are too many society groups at my club
• You cant play from the white tees all the time

I’m being a little flippant there but the avid players’ issues are the golfing equivalent of the phrase ‘first world problems’ – ie not being able to get any really decent Burgundy down at your local One Stop.

I doubt many of us get see what its like at other end of things – whether that be at the entry point to the game or even the situation where you’re only playing a handful of times a year and each time you pick up a club you think to yourself. “Blimey, this game is really quite difficult” – but it’s a long way from the world of the midweek roll up.

My view is that the wider game of golf turns its back on occasional and current non golfers at its peril because with a bit of effort they could be the avid golfers of the future and teeing it up with you in the 2018 Captain’s Texas Scramble

When someone says golf doesn’t need to change (as many have on this thread) it may not need to change for them to keep on enjoying their golf but it certainly does if the next generation of golfers are to be found and immersed in the game to the level we all are.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

That's a cracking post Mike

I think whatever the companies do try needs to be done with the traditions and values of golf in mind

The game does need to grow but it's hard to target an age group whose main focus is building a career and family ( 20-30 year old )

Getting them early into group sessions appears to work but as they grow older cost then becomes a factor

If companies and clubs want to change things then the cost of things need to change

Bringing out clubs at £350 isn't going to do that

Find ways to make golf more affordable