Wish I'd known BP was in the middle of editing it!!
Beau, nice post.
Beau, nice post.
From The Editor?
- Thread starter beau d.
- Start date
SimonS
Assistant Pro
Agreed.
There have been many column inches in GM over the last few years regarding the views of the TH boss on "improving golf". Last year he was wanting to make the hole bigger.
We would do well to remember that companies such as TM have only one aim - to sell more clubs/balls/clothes. They could not care less how that is achieved. Unfortunately our editor seems to have taken the hook.
GB72
Money List Winner
A good post and there is a a danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. There is room for modernisation in attitudes more in keeping with attitudes of today but the game itself should remain sacrosanct.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
But to sell more they would need more people playing the game itself
So whilst ultimately their motives ( all manufacturers ) will be the same - profit - it's not a bad idea to have them findings ways to get more people into golf
Allanxyz
Head Pro
Just read the editors letter... I'm in two minds. I guess he more people that play golf the cheaper it becomes, maybe the more golf course there are. This is broadly a good thing I suppose.
However I agree with beau d, I'm pretty happy with how exciting golf is, I couldn't really care less if twice as many people started playing the game or not. Obviously people with vested interests such as equipment manufacturers would love it if golf grows, more revenue, same goes for golf magazines... More people playing golf means squeezing more money out of the sport... Never mind sport for sports sake.
I know this is a fairly outdated attitude.. Or at least goes against the current trends of openness, inclusivity and everything must get bigger better and more popular... But is this a good thing. Of course all sports evolve, golf has evolved and I'm not against that... Someone from 1800 would look at golf now and probably have a fit... But the rules and format are broadly the same. This power golf thingy came and went (as least as far as I'm aware), I guess as there is no appetite for it.
To me, there is no need for radical change... Evolution as opposed to revolution is required.
However I agree with beau d, I'm pretty happy with how exciting golf is, I couldn't really care less if twice as many people started playing the game or not. Obviously people with vested interests such as equipment manufacturers would love it if golf grows, more revenue, same goes for golf magazines... More people playing golf means squeezing more money out of the sport... Never mind sport for sports sake.
I know this is a fairly outdated attitude.. Or at least goes against the current trends of openness, inclusivity and everything must get bigger better and more popular... But is this a good thing. Of course all sports evolve, golf has evolved and I'm not against that... Someone from 1800 would look at golf now and probably have a fit... But the rules and format are broadly the same. This power golf thingy came and went (as least as far as I'm aware), I guess as there is no appetite for it.
To me, there is no need for radical change... Evolution as opposed to revolution is required.
copy it, or quote it in a reply and make the appropriate changes and we'll all read it
beau d.
Assistant Pro
Sadly I have lost the edit option on my original post CMAC because seemingly 20 minutes only from posting to edit the post. Bladeplayer has edited the post perfectly on my behalf thankfully.
I hope I have sorted the problem now as I have been ticking and unticking boxes in my settings so fingers crossed.
HawkeyeMS
Ryder Cup Winner
Good post Beau, I must admit I too find all this talk of "dumbing down" the game for the sake of appealing to the masses a bit tedious. As far as I can see, this isn't an attempt to attract new people to the game of golf, it's an attempt to create a new game based on golf, that isn't the same thing.
If we want to increase participation, lets focus on the positives about golf rather than the negatives and lets advertise those. Let's get into schools and give the kids the opportunity to try it. Golf as it is is a great game, it could do with advertising itself a bit better, but the fundamental game itself doesn't need changing.
If we want to increase participation, lets focus on the positives about golf rather than the negatives and lets advertise those. Let's get into schools and give the kids the opportunity to try it. Golf as it is is a great game, it could do with advertising itself a bit better, but the fundamental game itself doesn't need changing.
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beau d.
Assistant Pro
Really glad I am not alone in wanting the game to remain as it is. I do appreciate the need for a little tweeking here and there, as seemingly do others but the overlying factor for me is like HawkeyeMS states the fundimentals do not need changing.
Birchy
Money List Winner
I think there needs to be a balance. There is changes needed as some things are so outdated and uneccessary now although there is a shedload of things about the game that are already great.
We have to be careful we dont ruin it with new changes for sure. If it gets silly you will lose a lot more than you will gain.
The main thing we do need to change imo is to make it more accesible to kids and the younger generation. Its very slowly improving but i still see it as a bit of a drag to get into golf. Took me a while from registering interest in the game in my mind before i found a way into the sport.
We have to be careful we dont ruin it with new changes for sure. If it gets silly you will lose a lot more than you will gain.
The main thing we do need to change imo is to make it more accesible to kids and the younger generation. Its very slowly improving but i still see it as a bit of a drag to get into golf. Took me a while from registering interest in the game in my mind before i found a way into the sport.
Evening all
I’m pleased the eds letter has prompted some debate - its the only thing I really write in the mag so glad someone actually reads it!
(A jpg of the eds letter is attached here so everyone can read it even if they don’t get the mag)
More seriously the idea of the eds letter was get the topic of growing the game on the table for discussion so that’s job done.
I never expected everyone to agree with what I wrote but I think those who profess to love the game and want to see it grown need to think of new ways to increase participation levels because the current offering isn’t working. if you think otherwise I'm afraid you're rather sticking your head in the sand
A few points to clarify my view and reply to comments above
My views (and those of the people who have got behind the launch of hackgolf) focus not on the game that established golfers (you, me basically anyone on here) play but rather on golf's entry level offering.
To suggest I was advocating changing the game we play suggests the OP hadn’t properly read what I wrote because I explicity said...
“…it’s about tearing up the rule book and inventing new golf formats to act as entry points to the game we all know and love. That’s not to say established golfers should start taking unlimited Mulligans, dropping back in bounds or putting to bucket holes. Rather, it’s about the birth of a new form of golf to halt and reverse decline.â€
The numbers don’t lie, fewer and fewer people are getting into golf and when you start doing some research and asking why then the common threads are as follows...
• It's too expensive (especially when compared to other sports/leisure activities)
• It's too hard and takes too long to get to a level where you are competent and having fun
• I don’t know where to get started
• It's not family friendly
• There are too many confusing/intimidating rules and traditions
• In its current format (18 holes) the game takes too long and in a society here we have less and less time to spend on leisure activities thats not a good thing
If a version of golf can be created that addresses the above hurdles then I believe the game of golf will grow
The bottom line is current initiatives aren’t succeeding in getting people transitioned from picking up a club through to occasional play and on to regular participation so to reverse the trend we need to try something new
If we don’t try something new then overall participation numbers will drop and drop and the cost of playing the game will rise and rise as there are fewer people to share the burden of paying for the facilities (it takes a lot of money to maintain a golf facility). In the end we will become a minority sport – the preserve of the relative few who were lucky enough to…
• Have been introduced to the game by a friend or relative who could show them the ropes and make integration into the game relatively pain free
• Pick up a club and have natural talent for playing the game so can quickly get to level where they are competent
• Have enough time and money to have lessons get to the above level
The involvement of TaylorMade
Liverpoolphil hits the nail on the head when he says "But to sell more they would need more people playing the game itself So whilst ultimately their motives (all manufacturers) will be the same - profit - it's not a bad idea to have them findings ways to get more people into golf"
Spot on and I can guarantee if a new version of the game is developed that requires different clubs pretty much every current brand will want to service that market and brands like Dunlop will bring out gear that broadly does the same job as the top names…but costs a lot less!
TaylorMade of course have a vested interest in growing game - as does Golf Monthly and every other brand in the industry – but to date only TaylorMade has pledged to back any ideas that could drive growth with a fund of up to $5m, and for that I applaud them.
I hope other brands/governing bodies etc follow suit. If Golf Monthly had the resources of TM and I was making the decisions then I’d want to invest cash and ideas in a project that could not only help safeguard the future of the game but also produce the next generation of mag readers and forum posters
as I said in the piece - I want to see our game, the game I love, grow and I believe that to do that we need to have some radical ideas that address the true issues that are holding golf back
Plenty to debate that’s for sure
I’m pleased the eds letter has prompted some debate - its the only thing I really write in the mag so glad someone actually reads it!
(A jpg of the eds letter is attached here so everyone can read it even if they don’t get the mag)
More seriously the idea of the eds letter was get the topic of growing the game on the table for discussion so that’s job done.
I never expected everyone to agree with what I wrote but I think those who profess to love the game and want to see it grown need to think of new ways to increase participation levels because the current offering isn’t working. if you think otherwise I'm afraid you're rather sticking your head in the sand
A few points to clarify my view and reply to comments above
My views (and those of the people who have got behind the launch of hackgolf) focus not on the game that established golfers (you, me basically anyone on here) play but rather on golf's entry level offering.
To suggest I was advocating changing the game we play suggests the OP hadn’t properly read what I wrote because I explicity said...
“…it’s about tearing up the rule book and inventing new golf formats to act as entry points to the game we all know and love. That’s not to say established golfers should start taking unlimited Mulligans, dropping back in bounds or putting to bucket holes. Rather, it’s about the birth of a new form of golf to halt and reverse decline.â€
The numbers don’t lie, fewer and fewer people are getting into golf and when you start doing some research and asking why then the common threads are as follows...
• It's too expensive (especially when compared to other sports/leisure activities)
• It's too hard and takes too long to get to a level where you are competent and having fun
• I don’t know where to get started
• It's not family friendly
• There are too many confusing/intimidating rules and traditions
• In its current format (18 holes) the game takes too long and in a society here we have less and less time to spend on leisure activities thats not a good thing
If a version of golf can be created that addresses the above hurdles then I believe the game of golf will grow
The bottom line is current initiatives aren’t succeeding in getting people transitioned from picking up a club through to occasional play and on to regular participation so to reverse the trend we need to try something new
If we don’t try something new then overall participation numbers will drop and drop and the cost of playing the game will rise and rise as there are fewer people to share the burden of paying for the facilities (it takes a lot of money to maintain a golf facility). In the end we will become a minority sport – the preserve of the relative few who were lucky enough to…
• Have been introduced to the game by a friend or relative who could show them the ropes and make integration into the game relatively pain free
• Pick up a club and have natural talent for playing the game so can quickly get to level where they are competent
• Have enough time and money to have lessons get to the above level
The involvement of TaylorMade
Liverpoolphil hits the nail on the head when he says "But to sell more they would need more people playing the game itself So whilst ultimately their motives (all manufacturers) will be the same - profit - it's not a bad idea to have them findings ways to get more people into golf"
Spot on and I can guarantee if a new version of the game is developed that requires different clubs pretty much every current brand will want to service that market and brands like Dunlop will bring out gear that broadly does the same job as the top names…but costs a lot less!
TaylorMade of course have a vested interest in growing game - as does Golf Monthly and every other brand in the industry – but to date only TaylorMade has pledged to back any ideas that could drive growth with a fund of up to $5m, and for that I applaud them.
I hope other brands/governing bodies etc follow suit. If Golf Monthly had the resources of TM and I was making the decisions then I’d want to invest cash and ideas in a project that could not only help safeguard the future of the game but also produce the next generation of mag readers and forum posters
as I said in the piece - I want to see our game, the game I love, grow and I believe that to do that we need to have some radical ideas that address the true issues that are holding golf back
Plenty to debate that’s for sure
malek988
Challenge Tour Pro
Bill your far to nice you know that? and you have way to much time on your hands, i had a headache after reading 2 sentences lol (of #39's)
richart
Major Champion
I like the idea of new ways to encourage kids to play. When I went to the cricket the kids would play Quick Cricket during the lunch interval. Along with cricket, golf takes too long. Twenty twenty cricket is a huge hit with kids and adults. We need a golf equivalent, fast, simple to understand. Not sure what the answer is, but the professional golf on television is not helping the cause. Yesterdays final was excruciating at times. I can see now why Jason Day is nicknamed 'All day'.
Something needs to be done at the top end of the game. Yes regular golf nuts will still watch, but someone flicking channels will watch that sort of entertainment for a couple of minutes and then switch over to the darts. What is worrying is it is the young players that are so slow. Across all ages attention spans are getting shorter, there are more alternative activities, and golf needs to be able to compete.
Something needs to be done at the top end of the game. Yes regular golf nuts will still watch, but someone flicking channels will watch that sort of entertainment for a couple of minutes and then switch over to the darts. What is worrying is it is the young players that are so slow. Across all ages attention spans are getting shorter, there are more alternative activities, and golf needs to be able to compete.
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
PowerPlay was a format that was supposed to be the 20:20 of Golf but it didn't capture the imagination. A bunch of us went to The Grove with GM and tried it out. Some liked it, some didn't but Peer McEvoy was convinced it was going to work.
I guess the issue with PP was that you actually had to be able to play golf to get anything out of it. So not something that would attract people to the game.
A friend of mine is currently transporting his Daughter around Bucks every weekend s she plays Comps on Par 3 courses, she was at Wycombe Heights last week and won her at division, she's 12. There were loads of kids playing these things, almost as many as there were adults on the main course.
Maybe that's a way to go - build more 9 hole par 3 courses, you don't need much land and the holes don't have to be long - we have one and the longest hole is 97 yards. Throw in a few bunkers and ponds to make it a bit more like a real course but it only takes 30 minutes to go round.
Whet the appetite on the short courses and maybe they'll get the bug and progress to the full game.
I guess the issue with PP was that you actually had to be able to play golf to get anything out of it. So not something that would attract people to the game.
A friend of mine is currently transporting his Daughter around Bucks every weekend s she plays Comps on Par 3 courses, she was at Wycombe Heights last week and won her at division, she's 12. There were loads of kids playing these things, almost as many as there were adults on the main course.
Maybe that's a way to go - build more 9 hole par 3 courses, you don't need much land and the holes don't have to be long - we have one and the longest hole is 97 yards. Throw in a few bunkers and ponds to make it a bit more like a real course but it only takes 30 minutes to go round.
Whet the appetite on the short courses and maybe they'll get the bug and progress to the full game.
Crow
Crow Person
Like it.
No need for any new rules or clubs, you're still playing proper golf, just on a more beginner-friendly course.
If the bug bites you can change to 18 hole golf, or even just carry on with the 9 hole par 3 format.
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bluewolf
Money List Winner
Good post..
In my ever so humble opinion, the game of golf doesn't need any major changes. A few tweaks here and there maybe, but nothing major. What does need to change is the behaviour/opinions/actions of a small number of people who make the game look archaic rather than traditional.
In my ever so humble opinion, the game of golf doesn't need any major changes. A few tweaks here and there maybe, but nothing major. What does need to change is the behaviour/opinions/actions of a small number of people who make the game look archaic rather than traditional.
GB72
Money List Winner
I agree with this. The 9 hole course near me does great business and really helps attract people to the game. Same with the par 3 course at Rutland Water, my 9 year old nephew is up there all the time. Was really sad day when Greetham Valley ripped up a great little par 3 course to add holes t the main course then ripped up the new par 3 holes to build chalets.
The biggest hurdle to getting newcomers into the game is that it is damned hard to hit a golf ball and even harder to be slightly proficient. Society now wants some instant gratification and golf does not give up its delights easily
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
I think any initiative to grow the game needs to be taken back to the drawing board rather than trying to jump into the current lifecycle of a 'golfer' and start to make changes at a random point
For a kick off has anyone specifically asked the youngsters if they even want to play golf and if they do want to play an entry game that'll get them into full golf, what might that look like?
What are the kids expectations of a entry game and is it influenced by computer games (where tiger rarely hits a slice) to a point where the real thing just isn't appealing
Also I think I'm right in saying VAT applies to golf club purchases and this needs to be looked at especially if its kids clubs (in fact sporting equipment should be considered for VAT exemption, why are many cakes and biscuits exempt from VAT but not golf clubs! but that's another thread)
Third (and since TM are mentioned) have you seen their range of junior clubs? nope neither have I
You might find the odd retailer with a junior burner set but don't expect a choice, for example AG has no TM for kids (and if kids are going to take up golf they will want the same brands they see being used on TV and at a sub £100 for a set inc bag) TM may want to think about this as part of their commitment to the game (and it does them no harm as kids grow up to already be the preferred choice) Most of the golf marques if not ignore kids then certainly appear to
I think short par 3 courses, pitch and putt & yes even crazy golf/mini golf, should be part of the club scene up and down the country. We probably have enough square footage already given to golf but its just not used properly. Ok so I'm not suggesting every private course has a crazy golf on the front lawn but there's a gulf from how youngsters are accommodated and viewed now to where we need to be
For a kick off has anyone specifically asked the youngsters if they even want to play golf and if they do want to play an entry game that'll get them into full golf, what might that look like?
What are the kids expectations of a entry game and is it influenced by computer games (where tiger rarely hits a slice) to a point where the real thing just isn't appealing
Also I think I'm right in saying VAT applies to golf club purchases and this needs to be looked at especially if its kids clubs (in fact sporting equipment should be considered for VAT exemption, why are many cakes and biscuits exempt from VAT but not golf clubs! but that's another thread)
Third (and since TM are mentioned) have you seen their range of junior clubs? nope neither have I
You might find the odd retailer with a junior burner set but don't expect a choice, for example AG has no TM for kids (and if kids are going to take up golf they will want the same brands they see being used on TV and at a sub £100 for a set inc bag) TM may want to think about this as part of their commitment to the game (and it does them no harm as kids grow up to already be the preferred choice) Most of the golf marques if not ignore kids then certainly appear to
I think short par 3 courses, pitch and putt & yes even crazy golf/mini golf, should be part of the club scene up and down the country. We probably have enough square footage already given to golf but its just not used properly. Ok so I'm not suggesting every private course has a crazy golf on the front lawn but there's a gulf from how youngsters are accommodated and viewed now to where we need to be
I think some clubs don't help themselves with too many 'old guard' at the helm.
We have invested in building a very nice par 3 course and its great for homing in on your short game, but, I don't see it advertised or promoted anywhere other than our own club website! A lot of committee members and clubs are entrenched in the way they do things and 'change' can be an ugly word, and yet, we have invested in something to kick-start interest which is aside to the main course and short enough for those looking to get into the game to have some fun and hopefully take up the sport and become future full members. However, its mainly used only by the current membership.
Advertising costs are huge, so more local proactive one-to-one initiatives need to be undertaken by inviting local schools of various ages to the club for a group introduction to the sport, we have a small practice area/range up to 165yds so they would learn the basics their and then smaller groups would then find themselves going around the par 3 course under instruction.
The problem then I see is its a huge leap from the par 3 course to the main course, not as 18 holes in length but just a hole-by-hole scenario, I think if clubs had as I've seen on my travels, Blue Tees for Juniors so thus creating a shorter course, then our 1st tee turns itself from a 475yd par 4 to a say 300yd par 4 or 5. (an example but you know where I'm coming from).
I think some golf courses, there committees and overall presence can seem intimidating to the young, after-all, they can feel hostile to some of us adults when joining a new club, so, its those perceptions that need breaking down, not the rules of golf, we need to make it more inclusive, approachable and less intimidating and not the exclusive sport/hobby it can come across at present, and that starts at our own clubs. If you have the infrastructure, like we do, it will have no cost other than man hours from volunteers along with the Pro and his/her assistant, who should be rubbing their hands with the possibility that some will want to take their introductions further and become new clients.
I remember reading one of MIke's editorials back in May 2013 about the 'Golf Foundation', I'd never heard of this before and I wonder how many of our clubs really know or bother to find out what it can offer them, if anything, and what benefits they might obtain if they contributed to it. I'd like to see a campaign started here on the GM Forum and through the magazine to create a greater awareness of the Golf Foundation and in association with that, lets see how many clubs and its members pick up the baton if they really do want to see change and young development or if its just hot air and someone else's problem!
http://www.golf-foundation.org/
We have invested in building a very nice par 3 course and its great for homing in on your short game, but, I don't see it advertised or promoted anywhere other than our own club website! A lot of committee members and clubs are entrenched in the way they do things and 'change' can be an ugly word, and yet, we have invested in something to kick-start interest which is aside to the main course and short enough for those looking to get into the game to have some fun and hopefully take up the sport and become future full members. However, its mainly used only by the current membership.
Advertising costs are huge, so more local proactive one-to-one initiatives need to be undertaken by inviting local schools of various ages to the club for a group introduction to the sport, we have a small practice area/range up to 165yds so they would learn the basics their and then smaller groups would then find themselves going around the par 3 course under instruction.
The problem then I see is its a huge leap from the par 3 course to the main course, not as 18 holes in length but just a hole-by-hole scenario, I think if clubs had as I've seen on my travels, Blue Tees for Juniors so thus creating a shorter course, then our 1st tee turns itself from a 475yd par 4 to a say 300yd par 4 or 5. (an example but you know where I'm coming from).
I think some golf courses, there committees and overall presence can seem intimidating to the young, after-all, they can feel hostile to some of us adults when joining a new club, so, its those perceptions that need breaking down, not the rules of golf, we need to make it more inclusive, approachable and less intimidating and not the exclusive sport/hobby it can come across at present, and that starts at our own clubs. If you have the infrastructure, like we do, it will have no cost other than man hours from volunteers along with the Pro and his/her assistant, who should be rubbing their hands with the possibility that some will want to take their introductions further and become new clients.
I remember reading one of MIke's editorials back in May 2013 about the 'Golf Foundation', I'd never heard of this before and I wonder how many of our clubs really know or bother to find out what it can offer them, if anything, and what benefits they might obtain if they contributed to it. I'd like to see a campaign started here on the GM Forum and through the magazine to create a greater awareness of the Golf Foundation and in association with that, lets see how many clubs and its members pick up the baton if they really do want to see change and young development or if its just hot air and someone else's problem!
http://www.golf-foundation.org/
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in Total agreement with you.
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