From The Editor?

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Couple of Question. Is the demographic of your average members club in Scotland any different to that in England? Has the demographic of your average members club in Scotland changed over the last 20-30yrs.

The questions are based upon the 'traditional' notion that 'everybody' (for that read all blokes) in Scotland play golf to one extent or another - because they were exposed to it and played a little or a lot when in their early teens. Is that the case? Was it ever the case? Thinking back to my teens just about all the blokes I knew played golf - most weren't members of clubs but had clubs and if the opportunity arose or the notion took them - played.

 

[patricks148]

Out of interest, has golf ever attracted the age groups that are being discussed. I have not had a deep interest in the game until relatively recently in so I honestly don't know. Most people that I know who play have taken it up later in life or played when young and come back to the game. Playing devils advocate here but could the quest to spread the game through kids be a pipe dream. Is a game that needs time, patience and dedication and offers little in the way of instant gratification in any way going to appeal to the youth of today.

I only started playing in my 40 ‘s and growing up in Hertfordshire I didn’t know anyone that played golf until my brother started playing in his teens, only due to a friend of his wanting to play as well. At that time there were far less clubs in the area than there are now. I remember him having to go and queue up to play at the municipal in St Albans at silly O’clock to maybe get to tee off two hours later, same story at the one in Luton.

Up here in Scotland all the guys I’ve played with have all been playing since they were kids, golf is very different in Scotland.

I don’t see the logic in trying to change the game we all love to attract people who aren’t interested in golf

 

[vkurup]

I disagree. The number of clubs closing continues to rise and there are many struggling to attract members. I don't think enough is being done to create members. Certainly I don't think a very large number of clubs, mine included to a certain degree, do enough to make the club a focal point and somewhere you'd consider using for a meal or social drink. It is all geared to the four (or five) hours of playing, a drink and maybe a quick bite and that's it until the next game.

I would love to see more people get into it. I think things like 60 60 golf at ranges have the potential to make hitting balls fun. If they enjoy that then some of the barriers and pre-conceptions people have may have been broken down. I don't think enough is done at grass roots level, and while the Golf Foundation and others do a job at encouraging youngsters in, there would seem to be a relatively untapped market of 25-35 year olds maybe at the end of other sporting careers like Sunday football or cricket. These may have had the odd game on a society day, but what is being done in a constructed manner, not just club by club, to tap this potentially lucrative market?

Agree.. I fell into this category. Did my footy, cricket et al.. now golf. Or as I like to say - As you get older, your balls get smaller...

 

[Hacker Khan]

I don’t see the logic in trying to change the game we all love to attract people who aren’t interested in golf

But how do you know people are not interested? I am sure there have been surveys showing there is a large potential untapped market out there.

And all sports change and evolve, it's how most of them survive. Surely it's better to do relatively small but constant changes to modernise, rather than leaving it too late and then having to make drastic and in some cases desperate changes that have the potential to completely alienate a lot of people.

 

[El Bandito]

My experience and take is that something does need to change. The numbers do seem to strongly indicate a decline in membership, in rounds played and in new entrants. Surveys do indicate that many of the reasons posted above have an impact, slow play, perception of golfers and golf clubs etc....

So I respectfully submit that the "utter tosh and nonsense...no reason to change a thing" view is well, utter tosh and nonsense.

I believe that there are legitimate concerns around the initiative as some might see this as a profits-driven plan that could also lead to bifurcation.

Personally - I like some of the ideas above about short courses, becoming more junior-friendly, removing pomposity (and the perception of it).

It is a great initiative, a great editorial and a great OP, whether one agrees with them or not - as it is getting the world of golf to have a good look at itself.

 

[patricks148]

But how do you know people are not interested? I am sure there have been surveys showing there is a large potential untapped market out there.

And all sports change and evolve, it's how most of them survive. Surely it's better to do relatively small but constant changes to modernise, rather than leaving it too late and then having to make drastic and in some cases desperate changes that have the potential to completely alienate a lot of people.

if you are interested in golf, would you not just try it and go from there its what most already do isn't it.

Whats stopping people from hire a set of clubs at a muni ?????

 

[Fish]

But how do you know people are not interested? I am sure there have been surveys showing there is a large potential untapped market out there.

And all sports change and evolve, it's how most of them survive. Surely it's better to do relatively small but constant changes to modernise, rather than leaving it too late and then having to make drastic and in some cases desperate changes that have the potential to completely alienate a lot of people.

I agree, I would suspect there are many myths and exaggerated views that put people off getting into the sport which if explained and introduced correctly, could catch a few new members. I don't think our 'Open Days' are structured enough to catch the complete newbie, there more geared around convincing members to move from elsewhere and are wholly based on the course only, not what the social side could bring to them and their family, IMO

 

[vkurup]

if you are interested in golf, would you not just try it and go from there its what most already do isn't it.

Whats stopping people from hire a set of clubs at a muni ?????

When was the last time someone looked into this. Had a left hander visit my course last year, the best we managed to find was 4 clubs incl the putter and they were rusty as well.

So here is an Hackathon idea, why dont club manufacturers provide some quality clubs for hire - can easily be done from their surplus stock. Good way for people to try out some decent clubs under real conditions. If they like it, they are likely to buy similar clubs.. win-win.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Up here in Scotland all the guys I’ve played with have all been playing since they were kids, golf is very different in Scotland.

This part answers my question on where golf currently is in Scotland. My mates all played (early teens early 70s), your Scottish friends have all played since their early teens if not earlier - so let's assume they were in early teens in early 80s? Does that situation continue in Scotland today? Do most 10-15yr olds play the game? Do they still feel that, even if it's not really their main sport, they are happy to play from time to time and that there is nothing negative associated with a teenager playing golf?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

When was the last time someone looked into this. Had a left hander visit my course last year, the best we managed to find was 4 clubs incl the putter and they were rusty as well.

So here is an Hackathon idea, why dont club manufacturers provide some quality clubs for hire - can easily be done from their surplus stock. Good way for people to try out some decent clubs under real conditions. If they like it, they are likely to buy similar clubs.. win-win.

On the 'hire a set' and 'just grab a few clubs and get out there' front I think that we regular golfers and the golf press have much to answer for with the obsession of many around golf gear in general. And in the context of 'just playing' clubs, bags and balls. In the past no-one really cared what clubs you had - if you spotted someone with a 'set' that was interesting. But we just played with whatever we could get our hands on - picking up clubs here and there. There was absolutely no feeling of being a 'lesser' golfer by playing old and mixed sets. You played - that's ALL that mattered.

And so to today - as with so much about golf we find ourselves wrapped up in snobbery and elitist attitudes towards equipment be that the balls, the clubs, the bags, trolley, DMDs and even what we wear - let's discuss the latest hyper cool Galvin Green half-zip top that costs £100 - let's get real - to most folk who may think about playing that is not real. And it's an attitude that is in my view a large part of what is killing our game.

Rant over

 

[vkurup]

On the 'hire a set' and 'just grab a few clubs and get out there' front I think that we regular golfers and the golf press have much to answer for with the obsession of many around golf gear in general. And in the context of 'just playing' clubs, bags and balls. In the past no-one really cared what clubs you had - if you spotted someone with a 'set' that was interesting. But we just played with whatever we could get our hands on - picking up clubs here and there. There was absolutely no feeling of being a 'lesser' golfer by playing old and mixed sets. You played - that's ALL that mattered.

And so to today - as with so much about golf we find ourselves wrapped up in snobbery and elitist attitudes towards equipment be that the balls, the clubs, the bags, trolley, DMDs and even what we wear - let's discuss the latest hyper cool Galvin Green half-zip top that costs £100 - let's get real - to most folk who may think about playing that is not real. And it's an attitude that is in my view a large part of what is killing our game.

Rant over

The first competition I ever went to was a corporate day at one of the Top 100 courses in the area. I had no clue about traditions or how things worked - except for the 'survival guide' from the organisers. So rocked up with my set of Dunlops in a black Dunlop bag nicely perched on my 10 quid Dunlop push trolley... As I left it parked next to the better looking TMs, Pings, Titelists, I wondered what everyone was smiling about. Now I understand (and I am part of the brand snob)

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The first competition I ever went to was a corporate day at one of the Top 100 courses in the area. I had no clue about traditions or how things worked - except for the 'survival guide' from the organisers. So rocked up with my set of Dunlops in a black Dunlop bag nicely perched on my 10 quid Dunlop push trolley... As I left it parked next to the better looking TMs, Pings, Titelists, I wondered what everyone was smiling about. Now I understand (and I am part of the brand snob)

Oh indeed - the condescension and sneering you experienced - where's the end of my nose so I can look down it to see you.

Faced with a realisation that your gear isn't good enough in some folks eyes - and you would be made to know it - you might just as easily have turned your back on the game as become the fine upstanding member of the golfing community that you have. But do try and restrain any brand and gear snobbery you just might have - it's not that attractive to newcomers.

We all know how little it actually takes to be able to play the game - and that the gear needn't actually cost very much at all - but wander into any members club and you wouldn't think that - and so how to you stop them turning around and walking away at that point.

 

[vkurup]

Slightly controversial

Is Golf considered as a white male sport? if some of us men have so many challenges getting into the game. I cant imagine the challenges faced by young girls or ladies. I know Homer & Hawkeye's club just got their first lady captain - which is brilliant news for the game. Interestingly most (or all) of the post on this thread are by men, so would be interesting to hear from the ladies on this issue?

Also what about the non-white population. The game is definitely growing in China and also picking up in India. I struggle to see much ethnic participation, though I have been on some courses where I have seen a healthy mix of everyone.

 

[Hacker Khan]

let's discuss the latest hyper cool Galvin Green half-zip top that costs £100 - let's get real - to most folk who may think about playing that is not real.

You're telling me. £100 for the latest Galvin Green, they are at least double that! Get real

 

[patricks148]

On the 'hire a set' and 'just grab a few clubs and get out there' front I think that we regular golfers and the golf press have much to answer for with the obsession of many around golf gear in general. And in the context of 'just playing' clubs, bags and balls. In the past no-one really cared what clubs you had - if you spotted someone with a 'set' that was interesting. But we just played with whatever we could get our hands on - picking up clubs here and there. There was absolutely no feeling of being a 'lesser' golfer by playing old and mixed sets. You played - that's ALL that mattered.

And so to today - as with so much about golf we find ourselves wrapped up in snobbery and elitist attitudes towards equipment be that the balls, the clubs, the bags, trolley, DMDs and even what we wear - let's discuss the latest hyper cool Galvin Green half-zip top that costs £100 - let's get real - to most folk who may think about playing that is not real. And it's an attitude that is in my view a large part of what is killing our game.

Rant over

You are prob right. folk are more concerned with what stuff they have rather than just playing.

I remember my brother and his mate getting their clubs from Oxfam and a right old mixed bag it was too, yellow plastic with about 10 wooden headed clubs in

Even my first few games were played with an borrowed set of 30 year old blades, I would have kept using them if they guy hadn't wanted them back. So had to go and buy a Dunlop set. The works for less than £100, used those untill was down to a mid teen handicap. and treated myself to a set of MX17.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Slightly controversial

I know Homer & Hawkeye's club just got their first lady captain - which is brilliant news for the game. Interestingly most (or all) of the post on this thread are by men, so would be interesting to hear from the ladies on this issue?

First lady captain of a Royal golf club. I know other clubs in the UK have appointed lady captains to be the figurehead for all sections (men andn women) and be captain of the club as a whole and so I think its important to differentiate and recognise that for the lady in question and I guess for the club too, this is actually quite prestigious. It will make zero difference to getting people into the sport though!

 

[Slab]

First lady captain of a Royal golf club. I know other clubs in the UK have appointed lady captains to be the figurehead for all sections (men andn women) and be captain of the club as a whole and so I think its important to differentiate and recognise that for the lady in question and I guess for the club too, this is actually quite prestigious. It will make zero difference to getting people into the sport though!

Hey Homer, perhaps showing my ignorance here but what actually is the significance, benefits or distinction that a club has when its prefixed with 'Royal'

(sorry its off topic a bit)

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Hey Homer, perhaps showing my ignorance here but what actually is the significance, benefits or distinction that a club has when its prefixed with 'Royal'

(sorry its off topic a bit)

My understanding is that Royal Clubs are granted their patronage usually via a royal connection. In our case we have Prince Andrew as our patron and our history is here http://www.royalascotgolfclub.co.uk/the-club/history.html

As for benefits, we have reciprocal arrangements with other Royal clubs around the world. Other than that, it is more of a title than anything else.

 

[Jack_bfc]

Interesting thread..

firstly Im not sure people arent taking up and playing golf. I just think they are not becoming members and playing in comps.

I,m 50 this year and been playing on and off for 15 years and this year I am joining an established club for the first time.

there are so many decent courses to pay and play and with 2-1 vouchers reasonably priced so unless you want to play in comps to maintain a HC you dont need to join a club.

When I first started, I enjoyed playing twice a week on courses like Duxberry, Haigh Hall, Charnock Richard, Westhoughton, Hindley etc.

One of the first times I played at an established club in a corperate golf day I was told to get off the phone and tuck my shirt in like I was a scholboy. I was 40 years old and stood in the **** car park.....

I was fuming. I thought, if thats what its like in a club like this, you can keep it.

 

[Hacker Khan]

First lady captain of a Royal golf club. I know other clubs in the UK have appointed lady captains to be the figurehead for all sections (men andn women) and be captain of the club as a whole and so I think its important to differentiate and recognise that for the lady in question and I guess for the club too, this is actually quite prestigious. It will make zero difference to getting people into the sport though!

Taken on it's own as an isolated incident probably not. But the more females who take up prominent positions and are even seen around golf courses can only lead to more interest from other females and will do something to counter the perception that the game is a male sport. And you never know, some of those females might decide to give golf a try after a talk from or meeting a lady captain? Doesn't the UK have one of the lowest percentage of female to male members of golf clubs in Europe?