Flags Out????

[Deleted member 1147]

I've played for years with the flag being tended and never been reported for slow play, neither am I a slow player. Tending the flag and slow play are not the same thing.

Indeed, if done properly tending the flag barely adds any extra time to the hole.

- You both go to your ball and do your pitchmark repairing, marking, cleaning and lining up
- At that point the player nearest asks those furthest away if any want the pin tending. If so, he goes to hole and tends the pin
- player furthest away putts, and whilst the ball is moving the tender whips out pin and holds it for the next man to putt, or puts it down away from play
- he then goes to his ball and prepares to putt whilst the next furthest away putts, or remains at the hole and tends

The most important part is everyone reading their putt at the same time, unlike the way Pros appear to do it today.

Maybe they should bring back etiquette lessons and playing lessons, with committee members or the pro, for newbies?

 

[D-S]

Pre COVID I said that, even though I am a flag out golfer from 10 foot and in, the one thing that changed for me was that I would never have the flag attended ever again. I never liked having someone standing by my target.
However if I play a course with those extra thick pins due to the ball lifters fitted round them, I would now be tempted to have it attended. We played one course with them and all four of us had at least one ‘holed’ putt bounce out - two of them were absolute deadweight and hit the centre of pin popping straight back. Ultra thick pins is the one thing I’m really looking forward to never seeing again.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Pre COVID I said that, even though I am a flag out golfer from 10 foot and in, the one thing that changed for me was that I would never have the flag attended ever again. I never liked having someone standing by my target.
However if I play a course with those extra thick pins due to the ball lifters fitted round them, I would now be tempted to have it attended. We played one course with them and all four of us had at least one ‘holed’ putt bounce out - two of them were absolute deadweight and hit the centre of pin popping straight back. Ultra thick pins is the one thing I’m really looking forward to never seeing again.

It was useful in team golf as your pp could stand on the side you’re aiming and give you a line

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Pre COVID I said that, even though I am a flag out golfer from 10 foot and in, the one thing that changed for me was that I would never have the flag attended ever again. I never liked having someone standing by my target.
However if I play a course with those extra thick pins due to the ball lifters fitted round them, I would now be tempted to have it attended. We played one course with them and all four of us had at least one ‘holed’ putt bounce out - two of them were absolute deadweight and hit the centre of pin popping straight back. Ultra thick pins is the one thing I’m really looking forward to never seeing again.

Ball retrievers don’t have to be of the ‘sleeve’ type. Ours have a simple thin steel rod connected a lifting ‘arm’ to the ‘dish’. With the lifting arm spun round opposite of direction the putt is coming from, the rod is completely behind the flagstick, as well as (obviously) out of sight. The ball retrieval mechanism has no impact whatsoever on a putt.

 

[clubchamp98]

Simple thing is it’s still a choice the player has.
Taking his choice away is not up to anyone until it is outlawed in the rules.
I like the pin out for all putts, but if I can’t see the hole properly I will have it attended.
I would expect anyone I play with to do this for me if asked.

 

[D-S]

Ball retrievers don’t have to be of the ‘sleeve’ type. Ours have a simple thin steel rod connected a lifting ‘arm’ to the ‘dish’. With the lifting arm spun round opposite of direction the putt is coming from, the rod is completely behind the flagstick, as well as (obviously) out of sight. The ball retrieval mechanism has no impact whatsoever on a putt.

As I said, if ball retriever pins are the thick type I'll be glad to see the back of them - if they only have a single arm that you need to reposition, that is of course ok - but some have two arms which also makes the hole a lot smaller as well. Unfortunately a lot of clubs have the wider pin versions and that is a pain in the neck. If the thin pin types (admittedly pricy) were mandated then a lot of these debates would go away but not all.

 

[KenL]

It was useful in team golf as your pp could stand on the side you’re aiming and give you a line

Not sure that's allowed.

 

[clubchamp98]

Not sure that's allowed.

You can’t ask him to position his feet to help you line up.
But you can aim at his feet as long as it’s not agreed he will stand in certain places on the high side etc.
That’s how I understand it!

 

[KenL]

You can’t ask him to position his feet to help you line up.
But you can aim at his feet as long as it’s not agreed he will stand in certain places on the high side etc.
That’s how I understand it!

Yes, that sounds fine. I only ever asked for a pin to be held out of necessity.

Banished to history for me. ??

 

[sunshine]

They have that option and should use it if they feel it will assist them ?

The ball hitting the flag is a physical thing but there is also the mental side of things. I will use anything that I feel gives me an advantage.

The only reason I can think of for having the flag attended is to wind up my opponent. I will use anything that I feel gives me an advantage

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The only reason I can think of for having the flag attended is to wind up my opponent. I will use anything that I feel gives me an advantage

Can’t imagine why any opponent would get wound up as it has been standard practice for a century and longer and nobody got wound up before.

When might I want the flag attended? Say I prefer flag out for all putts, but find on a long one (perhaps I’m putting up a significant change of level) I am struggling or unable to get a good line on the hole...so I ask to have the flag attended.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Can’t imagine why any opponent would get wound up as it has been standard practice for a century and longer and nobody got wound up before.

When might I want the flag attended? Say I prefer flag out for all putts, but find on a long one (perhaps I’m putting up a significant change of level) I am struggling or unable to get a good line on the hole...so I ask to have the flag attended.

Surely that is unnecessary now that flags can be left in. Back in the day tending was necessary because flags had to be out when a ball was on the green. Now that isn't the case so tending becomes obsolete. Tending will die out and people will look back in future and scratch their heads about it.

 

[PJ87]

Surely that is unnecessary now that flags can be left in. Back in the day tending was necessary because flags had to be out when a ball was on the green. Now that isn't the case so tending becomes obsolete. Tending will die out and people will look back in future and scratch their heads about it.

Exactly this. If you are that far that you need the flag in to see the hole it's going to make no difference if the flag is in or out. What's the make % of that putt anyways?

Before it was to keep within the rules of no flag stick in when putt drops

But now it's not a rule .. it doesn't matter one bit

It will die out eventually

 

[clubchamp98]

Surely that is unnecessary now that flags can be left in. Back in the day tending was necessary because flags had to be out when a ball was on the green. Now that isn't the case so tending becomes obsolete. Tending will die out and people will look back in future and scratch their heads about it.

I think with the virus transmission things will change and evolve in all aspects of life including golf .
But it’s still a choice under the rules .
So if a player asks ,his choice should be respected.
Can’t think of any other things a fellow golfer would deny a pp just because he thinks it’s not nessesary.!!

 

[RichA]

99.9% of my long ones won't be troubling the hole or the flag anyway.
Flag in / flag out - at least it gives everyone a ready made excuse for the misses.
I wouldn't ask a playing partner to tend the flag for me any more than I would ask them to pick up my tees or carry my bag.
It feels to me like something from another era that's more superstition than actually providing a benefit.
Have there ever been any robot tests to establish the reality of it?

 

[theoneandonly]

Simple thing is it’s still a choice the player has.
Taking his choice away is not up to anyone until it is outlawed in the rules.
I like the pin out for all putts, but if I can’t see the hole properly I will have it attended.
I would expect anyone I play with to do this for me if asked.

You'd expect someone to do something that is no longer necessary?, I'd have to say if you asked me I'd say no.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I think with the virus transmission things will change and evolve in all aspects of life including golf .
But it’s still a choice under the rules .
So if a player asks ,his choice should be respected.
Can’t think of any other things a fellow golfer would deny a pp just because he thinks it’s not nessesary.!!

I wouldn't say no if asked to do it. I would undoubtedly do a little inward eye roll though ??

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Surely that is unnecessary now that flags can be left in. Back in the day tending was necessary because flags had to be out when a ball was on the green. Now that isn't the case so tending becomes obsolete. Tending will die out and people will look back in future and scratch their heads about it.

A simple reason why people might want the flag tended

Two tear green - they don’t want to keep the flag in when putting because they have a believe that the ball has a chance on bouncing out - so they want it tended because they can’t see the hole , as soon as they make the putting stroke the flag comes out

Already seen it happen a few times

Not everyone is the same - people have their own beliefs when they are putting

It doesn’t cause damage around the hole and it doesn’t slow up play

There is no harm in having the flag tended and for some it will still be neccesary even with the rule changes

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You'd expect someone to do something that is no longer necessary?, I'd have to say if you asked me I'd say no.

If I decide it is necessary then it is necessary. And if you said no to me in a match I might well concede and walk off. The word is ‘respect’ and in golf we respect the wishes of our opponent or playing companion. We don‘t challenge them.

The same applies if I ask you to move from where you are standing when I am about to play. If I ask you to move then you respect my request and move. End of.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Unless the person tending has putted out then clearly it slows the game down. Instead of looking at your own putt, being ready to go as soon as your partner has taken their putt, you are stood holding a flag by the hole. That is as clear as can be.