Farleigh Court Golf Club BANNED me from their driving range today!!

[JustOne]

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I should clarify, it's a GOLF CLUB, it has 27 holes and a membership base. It also has a driving range. The range is a dozen mats on the floor at the end of a field (range) with a few markers, it's NOT a stand-alone driving range.

We've paid green fees and gone and played, we've had food, drinks, and purchased a few bits and pieces from the pro shop. Usually we buy the balls at £6.50/100 and head off to the range..... sometimes we then pay a green fee and go and play 18 holes, but not always, depends on the person.

 

[chrisd]

I am sure that if anyone here went to any range with a mate, video'd, etc and worked on their swing for hours, the pro wouldn't bat an eyelid. I know the pro at mine well and have done this with, and for, a golfing mate with no problem, many a time.

If, however, I turned up with different people regularly or even occasionally, and did the same for several hours, I am pretty sure that I would be asked not to do it. The decision of the owner/pro is theirs to make and I feel sure that they would feel that this is more than just mates working together and wouldn't want to allow it or possibly encourage others to ask their mates/pro to turn up and do likewise.

I posted earlier that it did happen at my local range and the guy teaching was also banned, not from hitting, but certainly from teaching. its really down to the owners to decide as to whether they will allow it or not and I suspect most wouldn't.

 

[Garesfield ACE]

The guys pay £6.50 for 100 balls, so we've probably invested about £650 in the club so far

We've also had food, drinks, a couple of bits from the pro shop and several green fees.... and maybe inspired some of the guys on the range to go have a lesson with one of the pros.

Superb reply JO....keep up the great work you are doing to help others,well admired by myself.

 

[blackpuddinmonster]

Maybe a link to this thread should be emailed to him?

I'd actually be quite surprised if he didn't know he was being discussed, six degrees of seperation and all that.
It didn't take the trilby boys long to find out they were being discussed.
If he does know its a shame he hasn't come on to explain his descission.
As for JO i think what he does is great.
The bloke is obviously a nutter with far too much time on his hands.
But you seam a likeable nutter so good luck to you mate.
Don't let the nae sayers put you of. Its only a game. :thup:

 

[Driven2Distraction]

Surely - if the range has rules, they are to be abided by whether we understand them or like them

Golf is full of rules that we neither like nor really understand but we don't pick & choose the ones we fancy and get too uppity about the ones we don't

 

[JustOne]

Surely - if the range has rules, they are to be abided by whether we understand them or like them

Golf is full of rules that we neither like nor really understand but we don't pick & choose the ones we fancy and get too uppity about the ones we don't

From the FIRST post....

Steve Stiller seemed pretty reasonable and said OK, no problem, if you're not a pro and you're not charging then so be it. I then told him i had arranged to meet someone else this coming Saturday (today) and he said that was OK

Now.....what rules are we talking about?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

From the FIRST post....



Now.....what rules are we talking about?

Out of interest have you had further discussions with him/range owner since the decision?

 

[Driven2Distraction]

"You can't teach here any more" ......


So there you go.... If I was a PGA qualified I'm not allowed to even be there to use their facilities,...
and as an amateur they don't want me there teaching my 'friends, family, colleagues, or anyone else who knows me...

Can't be there as a pro, can't be there as an amateur - Snookered!!!!

also from the first post... Your point?

As far as rules go - pick one. Plenty of posts here stating "If you don't like 'em, play a different game..."

 

[JustOne]

also from the first post... Your point?

The point being the 'rules' were whatever seemed to be coming out of his mouth at the various times when he spoke to me, that's all.

@Homer.... not yet mate. There might be something in the pipeline......

 

[Slab]

The point being the 'rules' were whatever seemed to be coming out of his mouth at the various times when he spoke to me, that's all

Could that be because over the course of several days & as you were conversing he was made aware of more & more information that he didn't have to begin with!

 

[chrisd]

The point being the 'rules' were whatever seemed to be coming out of his mouth at the various times when he spoke to me, that's all.

@Homer.... not yet mate. There might be something in the pipeline......

Most ranges won't have "rules" as such, to cover a situation. If the pro feels that his business is being threatened he will just makes up the "rules" on the hoof.

When I started my business one of the things I said with my co partner was that if someone upset us, at least we could tell them where to go. 21 years later I have told precisely one person never to come back, but even today it would be our decision whether we served someone or not.

 

[Jimbooo]

When I started my business one of the things I said with my co partner was that if someone upset us, at least we could tell them where to go. 21 years later I have told precisely one person never to come back, but even today it would be our decision whether we served someone or not.

I think I am going to ban you from my place, too!

 

[Driven2Distraction]

The pro’s (changing) attitude to you teaching there is indeed frustrating. We all get annoyed when someone says “yes” then “no” without an explanation that satisfies us – granted.

However – unless the Pro is the owner of the establishment then it wasn’t really his decision to make in the first place. All in all your dealings with this chap have been unsatisfactory and I understand your annoyance on that front.

BUT

There have been an awful lot of posts on this thread about your “right” to be teaching there... whether you were indeed teaching rather than giving advice to a friend...... and the reasons for banning you being related to income protection for the pro etc etc..

In my humble opinion – all complete & utter twaddle. There is a bigger picture here IMO and that’s “liability”.

I’ll preface the following by also stating that I’m no expert in these matters, but the range/club will more than likely carry 3rd party/Public Liability insurance for the activities of the establishment which will cover all the general stuff in the workplace along with the activities that involve the “public” and also the actual golfing activities.

I’m also pretty sure that the range will need to have policies & procedures in place to satisfy it’s insurers with regard to:

a) the environment in which lessons will be given (in my experience teaching bays are normally larger, and set aside from the main part of the range to allow for the extra space needed)

b) the competency of those that it employs to teach golf (it may or may not be a PGA person, but surely some method of accreditation, even internally by the establishment, will need to be used.

c) A signed agreement by those giving lessons that they agree to abide by the establishments rules & guidelines for the provisions of lessons.

What happens when one of your “students” hits a shonky hosel-rocket that caroms off the side wall and ricochets into the adjacent bay & hurts someone, or you step back out of the “normal” hitting zone on the mat while demonstrating something and catch someone on the noggin with a club? Or YOU get hit by an errant club or ball either from your mate/student or someone else and your significant other decides to sue the range because the bay wasn’t big enough for coaching and they should have stopped you.....

It’s all too easy to say “I’m too careful for that”, or “that’ll never happen” but the unfortunate thing is these improbable accidents DO happen and that’s why the range carry insurances – if someone pursues a claim against the range as a result of your inadvertent actions the range will get absolutely hammered for letting an unauthorised person teach at their facility and their insurers will walk away. The amount of money that you spend on balls, green fees etc and the cash that the range may or may not be losing out on in potential “lost” teaching revenue is insignificant compared to these potential losses.

Make no mistake you ARE teaching irrespective of what you call it, and whether you are charging for it or not. There’s a huge difference between giving a mate/your wife the odd pointer on the range while you happen to be hitting balls together for an hour or two and someone travelling a significant distance to spend a considerable amount of time with you to specifically get these friendly pointers.
If it looks like a duck & quacks like a duck I like my odds at Mr Hills that it actually IS a duck nomatter how many people tell me it’s a pigeon

If you act like you’re teaching someone and other people consider that you are indeed teaching, and something goes wrong, then I suspect that in the eyes of the people that matter (lawyers & insurers) then you are indeed teaching, and they’ll want you to prove that you are indeed a competent person to be doing so.

I’m in no way belittling your ability to improve people’s swings and ultimately their enjoyment of the game, indeed your passion for golf and willingness to help others is to be commended mate, sincerely – but there’s a little more to it than just being able to impart information in an understandable way, which you clearly have a talent for, and being a likeable chap – hence the reason for PGA, and other, accredited coaching badges

Be careful out there mate

 

[virtuocity]

Yep- that's definitely the reason for telling JO to beat it....... Public liability.

Lolza!

 

[JustOne]

Nice post D2D and acknowledge the point you're making.... so I come to your golf club for a round and whilst hitting balls beside you on the range (no teaching) I accidentally clobber someone in the face with a club?.. or you are there with your son and you say to him "grip it this way" and then he shanks one into the next bay?

The bottom line is that I am (we are) an amateur golfer, a companion, a colleague, and I am there at the request of the person I am with, two people trying to hit a ball with a stick, it's not rocket science and having a qualification to 'teach', help, observe, comment or whatever else you can describe it as isn't going to stop someone from slipping over or the occasional shot off the hosel. I would assume that the father that is helping his son for an hour is as insured (or not at all) as every other person who enters the premises, or slices their tee shot off the 1st tee towards the clubhouse. Any person making a living from instruction (or any golf related job) is doing so as a business and therefore would require some kind of business/personal liability insurance, anyone as an amateur ISN'T (as they can't charge).

 

[ger147]

You are teaching at their range/golf club, albeit free of charge, but you are still teaching.

They are perfectly within their rights to stop you from doing so at their range/golf club if they so wish.

 

[Driven2Distraction]

There's no straightforwad answers (hence 15+ pages of forum debate)

Don't get me wrong - it's tricky. Insurance & liability are murky at the best of times and I'm at the front of the queue when it comesto taking personal responsibility - there's a certain amount of inherent risk in going to the range or playing golf at the course, which I believe that we all accept as soon as we cross the threshold, but people do sue, successfully - club golfers have been held, rightly or wrongly, responsible for the injuries others have sustained

When I was a nipper my own dad taught me to swing a club with no one else around before he let me anywhere near a course or a range, but then perhaps that was merely his embarrassment at his son's ineptitude

I was just sayin' - there might be other reasons that ranges all over the country have signs up stating "no teaching" other than purely loss of teaching income

 

[bladeplayer]

The pro’s (changing) attitude to you teaching there is indeed frustrating. We all get annoyed when someone says “yes” then “no” without an explanation that satisfies us – granted.

However – unless the Pro is the owner of the establishment then it wasn’t really his decision to make in the first place. All in all your dealings with this chap have been unsatisfactory and I understand your annoyance on that front.

BUT

There have been an awful lot of posts on this thread about your “right” to be teaching there... whether you were indeed teaching rather than giving advice to a friend...... and the reasons for banning you being related to income protection for the pro etc etc..

In my humble opinion – all complete & utter twaddle. There is a bigger picture here IMO and that’s “liability”.

Sorry for shortening your post mate and a good post it was but the "liability" situation as you call it would not have changed from the 1st time JO and the pro spoke (& it was ok to be there once he was not charging to give advice) to now when it is not ok to be there at all .. if it was a problem the pro should have just said so ..

If JO was openly offering his service to others at the range / or to regulars of the pro i could see the problem but these are non users of the range or the pro that he is bringing down, so instead of loosing possible revenue the range /club is actually gaining revenue ..

I think the big thing learned here is to check with the owner/manager of a range beforehand in future and then there can be no doubt ..
I must admit to not having the first clue about some of the stuff JO posts ,im not good at the technical stuff .. but like others i commend his helpfulness to others , not too many people give of their time freely anymore ..

 

[chrisd]

I think I am going to ban you from my place, too!

Thank goodness for that! I've been chucked out of much better places!

 

[Odvan]

There's no straightforwad answers (hence 15+ pages of forum debate)

D2D, allow me to add my public and free forum coaching comment on the back of your detailed posts by advising you to change your settings in your profile to 20 replies per page...makes for much easier reading!