EU Referendum

[FairwayDodger]

I struggle to believe Cameron truly believes that Brexit would be as bad as any of these institutions say it would be, otherwise he wouldn't have professed he was prepared to support us leaving, or even called the referendum in the first place.

He could hardly go into his negotiations with the EU without at least intimating that he was prepared to leave if he didn't get what he wanted. Anything else would have undermined the whole process.

 

[MegaSteve]

I would truly love to look well beyond that absolutely horrible bunch of opportunists who are leading the leave campaign.
Would you buy a second hand car off any of them ?

By the same measure... If I ever shook hands with DaveCam, Georgieboy, GordyBrown et al the first thing I'd do afterwards would be to check my watch and wallet were still in situ...

 

[pendodave]

Can't help thinking that all parts of the British Establishment are a bit worried about actually having to do some work....

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You are convinced so what's the matter. I'm not but I don't get into a lather over your opinion.

So who the heck are you going to listen to?

I really struggle to understand how what the Governor of the BoE and the Monetary Policy Committee say, can just be ignored or dismissed. They are the group we trust to provide guidance on the economy of the country and set interest rates according to economic conditions - that is their job - they are the experts - they are not politicians.

On the politician front I'll listen to David Owen. Gisella Stuart, Michael Gove (sometimes), Jim Sillars; Ruth Lea;

I can't think of any significant business or finance people actually supporting Leave but let me know who I might have a listen to.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

It's difficult to understand what drives the comments of people like him. They have many hidden agendas and want to be seen as all things to all men, so it's almost impossible to understand who he really speaks for. I get the impression it's not the man in the street though.

I would argue that every single person offering a public on this, is thinking about their own hidden agenda.

 

[Hobbit]

So who the heck are you going to listen to?

I really struggle to understand how what the Governor of the BoE and the Monetary Policy Committee say, can just be ignored or dismissed. They are the group we trust to provide guidance on the economy of the country and set interest rates according to economic conditions - that is their job - they are the experts - they are not politicians.

On the politician front I'll listen to David Owen. Gisella Stuart, Michael Gove (sometimes), Jim Sillars; Ruth Lea;

I can't think of any significant business or finance people actually supporting Leave but let me know who I might have a listen to.

Do you really expect the 'establishment' to not back Diddy David? Are you really that gullible to believe they would do any different?

I just imagine the career limiting decision that would be by them to say any different.

By by the way, I get you've found the bold​ button. Not really necessary when you've already hit the quote button.

 

[SocketRocket]

He could hardly go into his negotiations with the EU without at least intimating that he was prepared to leave if he didn't get what he wanted. Anything else would have undermined the whole process.

He seemed pretty content rolling over on his back, letting Merkel tickle his stomach and throw him a few Doggy scraps.

 

[SocketRocket]

So who the heck are you going to listen to?

I really struggle to understand how what the Governor of the BoE and the Monetary Policy Committee say, can just be ignored or dismissed. They are the group we trust to provide guidance on the economy of the country and set interest rates according to economic conditions - that is their job - they are the experts - they are not politicians.

On the politician front I'll listen to David Owen. Gisella Stuart, Michael Gove (sometimes), Jim Sillars; Ruth Lea;

I can't think of any significant business or finance people actually supporting Leave but let me know who I might have a listen to.

I certainly don't take a lot of notice from establishment slimebats who are only interested in keeping their Ministerial or powerful positions. I go by my gut feeling that we are better than being a minion of this EU club that are becoming a shrinking violet with World Trade and diplomacy. Due to it's makeup the EU are inept as a coherent power, just look at the disgraceful situation with the current migrant crises as an example. There are lots of countries around the World that manage by themselves and IMO to think we are not competent to make a success of running ourselves shows a lack of plain old British Grit!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I certainly don't take a lot of notice from establishment slimebats who are only interested in keeping their Ministerial or powerful positions. I go by my gut feeling that we are better than being a minion of this EU club that are becoming a shrinking violet with World Trade and diplomacy. Due to it's makeup the EU are inept as a coherent power, just look at the disgraceful situation with the current migrant crises as an example. There are lots of countries around the World that manage by themselves and IMO to think we are not competent to make a success of running ourselves shows a lack of plain old British Grit!

Gut feeling is fair enough - but to ignore those you refer to - those for whom, if exiting was more likely to be beneficial to them than staying in - would be supporting exiting? But they are not. And they are not all establishment.

And I fear that the gut feeling of many who wish to Leave is driven by anger, resentments and feelings of entitlement that are not being met. And they want a scapegoat - to blame anyone or anything but themselves - we see and hear examples of this sort of thing every day ion contexts nothing to do with the EU.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Well I think the Remain camp have hit the jackpot today as they have received backing from the mighty Bjorn Ulvaeus. What do you mean you don't know who that is? It's Bjorn from Abba who has said that it would make him emotional if Britain voted to leave the EU. Forget the head of the IMF or the governor of the Bank of England, now that Bjorn has said we should stay that has guaranteed my vote to Remain.

 

[Old Skier]

Well I think the Remain camp have hit the jackpot today as they have received backing from the mighty Bjorn Ulvaeus. What do you mean you don't know who that is? It's Bjorn from Abba who has said that it would make him emotional if Britain voted to leave the EU. Forget the head of the IMF or the governor of the Bank of England, now that Bjorn has said we should stay that has guaranteed my vote to Remain.

No need to go that far, if we do leave we can still play in Eurovision along side Australia .

 

[SocketRocket]

Gut feeling is fair enough - but to ignore those you refer to - those for whom, if exiting was more likely to be beneficial to them than staying in - would be supporting exiting? But they are not. And they are not all establishment.

And I fear that the gut feeling of many who wish to Leave is driven by anger, resentments and feelings of entitlement that are not being met. And they want a scapegoat - to blame anyone or anything but themselves - we see and hear examples of this sort of thing every day ion contexts nothing to do with the EU.

I assure you I have no feelings of entitlement to anything, nothing has been given to me in my life and I expect nothing from others. I think this 'entitlement' you speak of is more a reflection of the way the EU works and why it is in such a mess. People all over the continent feel entitled to a better life than their economies can provide, just look to Greece, Romania, Bulgaria and so many others, they feel entitled to the same standards of living as countries like Germany, France and the UK but without creating that wealth for themselves. The EU and particularly the Euro Zone is a train chugging down the line to failure and if we are stupid enough we will buy a very expensive ticket to ride on it.

I feel your abject dislike that borders on hatred for people of a Brexit disposition is unhealthy and illogical. Do you see these Brexiters making such outlandish accusations?

 

[FairwayDodger]

He seemed pretty content rolling over on his back, letting Merkel tickle his stomach and throw him a few Doggy scraps.

Oh yeah, his supposed deal is all smoke and mirrors, no denying it. Doesn't affect my vote either way.

 

[Hobbit]

Today's Remain campaign says that families will be £4300 worse off if Leave are successful. A few weeks ago they were saying families would be £3600 worse off. Both sets of figures are from the Treasury.

An almost 20% difference.

Clueless or or ramping up the fear campaign?

The Open Europe Think Tank says that the UK will either 0.8% of GDP worse off, or 1.8% of better off depending on the negotiations. At least they state it could be either, rather than only portraying one set of figures as fact.

One side is predicting a jobs boom for Leave, whilst the other is saying mass redundancies.

 

[SocketRocket]

Today's Remain campaign says that families will be £4300 worse off if Leave are successful. A few weeks ago they were saying families would be £3600 worse off. Both sets of figures are from the Treasury.

An almost 20% difference.

Clueless or or ramping up the fear campaign?

The Open Europe Think Tank says that the UK will either 0.8% of GDP worse off, or 1.8% of better off depending on the negotiations. At least they state it could be either, rather than only portraying one set of figures as fact.

One side is predicting a jobs boom for Leave, whilst the other is saying mass redundancies.

The IMF have said we could experience a fall of up to 10% of GDP if we leave. As Andrew Neil suggested, thats ridiculous it's more than we had in the recession of 2009, more than the end of ww1, more than the great depression, more than when the Romans landed in Kent.

 

[Hobbit]

The IMF have said we could experience a fall of up to 10% of GDP if we leave. As Andrew Neil suggested, thats ridiculous it's more than we had in the recession of 2009, more than the end of ww1, more than the great depression, more than when the Romans landed in Kent.

The IMF and the ECB have a lot to lose if the Uk isn't supporting the Eurozone. Not to put it too bluntly, they'll be peeping their pants with worry. The Euro, and economies like Greece will take a major wobble.

Not good for anyone, but the UK economy is in a far better shape than most countries in Europe.

 

[SocketRocket]

The IMF and the ECB have a lot to lose if the Uk isn't supporting the Eurozone. Not to put it too bluntly, they'll be peeping their pants with worry. The Euro, and economies like Greece will take a major wobble.

Not good for anyone, but the UK economy is in a far better shape than most countries in Europe.

There will be risks which ever way the vote goes, for anyone to believe there is no risk to the country by Remaining is very naive. We all know that Cameron's so called 'Reformed EU' is a sham and there is no such thing. If we stay we will be a country sitting on the sidelines of the Euro Zone and will be a major contributor without any teeth, all this ludicrous talk of being better inside so we can influence, change and reform the EU is a complete fallacy. The recent renegotiations proved that without doubt.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Well , another huge Eurovision thumbs down, looks like a massive Brexit vote now

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I assure you I have no feelings of entitlement to anything, nothing has been given to me in my life and I expect nothing from others. I think this 'entitlement' you speak of is more a reflection of the way the EU works and why it is in such a mess. People all over the continent feel entitled to a better life than their economies can provide, just look to Greece, Romania, Bulgaria and so many others, they feel entitled to the same standards of living as countries like Germany, France and the UK but without creating that wealth for themselves. The EU and particularly the Euro Zone is a train chugging down the line to failure and if we are stupid enough we will buy a very expensive ticket to ride on it.

I feel your abject dislike that borders on hatred for people of a Brexit disposition is unhealthy and illogical. Do you see these Brexiters making such outlandish accusations?

I very deliberately didn't say that you had these feelings of entitlement - but from what I read and hear - very many others in the UK do, and these fears and resentments are driving their view. And I don't think leaving will fix their feelings. All that will change for these folks will be that we will not be in the EU and we will be faced with the complete and 100% uncertainly of 'what now'.

And as far as outlandish accusations - I assume you mean like those preposterously espoused by BoJo yesterday. Comparing the EU to Nazi Germany; and stating that it was Germany's plan all along to devastate the Italian car industry - thereby knackering the Italian economy and meanwhile turning Greece into a basket case economy and stopping the UK economy flourishing into something beyond our wildest dreams.. Yup - all part of the German master plan for the EU.

I don't hate anyone - I do rather despair at the continued and complete rejection by Brexit of any attempt by anyone to explain or point out the risks and issues around leaving and ignoring what we have today - which is not all bad. You have said you'll go by gut feeling. Fair enough. But we leave and we're going to be led by BoJo, IDS, Chris Greyling, Gove. Well. My gut instinct tells me that that is not a great prospect.

 

[FairwayDodger]

The rhetoric on both sides has been getting gradually more OTT but boris (who my phone wants to autocorrect to "virus" incidentally) has outdone them all in ridiculousness with his hitler nonsense.

Cancel the referendum, British politics is an embarrassment to us all.