EU Referendum

[SocketRocket]

I very deliberately didn't say that you had these feelings of entitlement - but from what I read and hear - very many others in the UK do, and these fears and resentments are driving their view. And I don't think leaving will fix their feelings. All that will change for these folks will be that we will not be in the EU and we will be faced with the complete and 100% uncertainly of 'what now'.

And as far as outlandish accusations - I assume you mean like those preposterously espoused by BoJo yesterday. Comparing the EU to Nazi Germany; and stating that it was Germany's plan all along to devastate the Italian car industry - thereby knackering the Italian economy and meanwhile turning Greece into a basket case economy and stopping the UK economy flourishing into something beyond our wildest dreams.. Yup - all part of the German master plan for the EU.

I don't hate anyone - I do rather despair at the continued and complete rejection by Brexit of any attempt by anyone to explain or point out the risks and issues around leaving and ignoring what we have today - which is not all bad. You have said you'll go by gut feeling. Fair enough. But we leave and we're going to be led by BoJo, IDS, Chris Greyling, Gove. Well. My gut instinct tells me that that is not a great prospect.

We will be led by whoever the country puts in power and thats the big issue"Who the UK population puts in power" Not a UK government that is overseen by a superstate. We will be led by politicians just like we do now, do you honestly believe they are going to quit politics if the vote goes against them. I think not.

 

[Foxholer]

We will be led by whoever the country puts in power and thats the big issue"Who the UK population puts in power" Not a UK government that is overseen by a superstate. We will be led by politicians just like we do now, do you honestly believe they are going to quit politics if the vote goes against them. I think not.

No we won't!

Did the UK population put Gordon Brown into power? Absolutely not! In fact, they voted him (and his Party) out at the first opportunity!

So it is - and will be - 'the Party' that puts Cameron's successor, if there is to be one, into power. That's one of the illusions (delusions?) of Westminister 'democracy'!

 

[SocketRocket]

No we won't!

Did the UK population put Gordon Brown into power? Absolutely not! In fact, they voted him (and his Party) out at the first opportunity!

So it is - and will be - 'the Party' that puts Cameron's successor, if there is to be one, into power. That's one of the illusions (delusions?) of Westminister 'democracy'!

Of course we will, we are always ruled by the people we put in power.

If you want to comment on my posts then please try to keep up, once again I suppose I have to repeat to you that it's best to actually read and inwardly digest something before replying .
The post was not about how to elect a Prime minister but the people who are in Parliament. I made the point that which ever way the referendum goes they will still be there and their successors will be selected by the voters.

Hope thats easy enough for you to follow (If you bother to read it that is)

 

[Foxholer]

Of course we will, we are always ruled by the people we put in power.

If you want to comment on my posts then please try to keep up, once again I suppose I have to repeat to you that it's best to actually read and inwardly digest something before replying .
The post was not about how to elect a Prime minister but the people who are in Parliament. I made the point that which ever way the referendum goes they will still be there and their successors will be selected by the voters.

Hope thats easy enough for you to follow (If you bother to read it that is)

:rofl:

As it's Sunday....Luke 4:23!

 

[SocketRocket]

:rofl:

As it's Sunday....Luke 4:23!

What an odd post But then again!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Please don't suggest that the Tories were elected on the basis that BoJo would be PM and Gove Chancellor. I don't think so.

 

[Hobbit]

Please don't suggest that the Tories were elected on the basis that BoJo would be PM and Gove Chancellor. I don't think so.

Please no!

I'll be voting Labour if there's a hint of a chance of that duo... mind you, Labour will need to dump comrade Corbyn.

 

[SocketRocket]

Please don't suggest that the Tories were elected on the basis that BoJo would be PM and Gove Chancellor. I don't think so.

Where was that suggested? However, I think you are underestimating their intellect, they are both very clever people. To me preferable to Pantsdown, Kinnochio, Major Eyeswater and Camooron.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Where was that suggested? However, I think you are underestimating their intellect, they are both very clever people. To me preferable to Pantsdown, Kinnochio, Major Eyeswater and Camooron.

Boris? Intellect? The man's a complete buffoon.

 

[Old Skier]

Boris? Intellect? The man's a complete buffoon.

unfortunately not, and it appears some have fallen for his act.

 

[SocketRocket]

Boris? Intellect? The man's a complete buffoon.

Buffon he is not. He has achieved more than most people can dream about in his 52 years. Read a bit about his life to date and reconsider that comment:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Johnson

 

[FairwayDodger]

Buffon he is not. He has achieved more than most people can dream about in his 52 years. Read a bit about his life to date and reconsider that comment:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Johnson

Ok. Still a buffoon.

 

[SocketRocket]

Ok. Still a buffoon.

OK Karen

 

[FairwayDodger]

OK Karen

I knew I could convince you :lol:

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Buffon he is not. He has achieved more than most people can dream about in his 52 years. Read a bit about his life to date and reconsider that comment:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Johnson

Well why the heck does he act like a buffoon and spout idiotic and mendacious rubbish. The sort of stuff that has callers to LBC phone in's declaring - yes - Boris is right - the EU is just like Hitler and Napoleon, all hell bent on dictatorial European domination.

Even if that were true surely the best way to minimise the risk to the UK brought about by a European dictator would be to continue to engage as fully as possible with him - not walk away, then try and re-engage with him and, 'a la Chamberlain', eventually wave a bit of paper saying 'everything is fine - I've managed to arrange a trade deal with the EU'.

Anyway - not a lot of point in trying to convince those who have decided through gut feeling that Leaving is the best thing to do.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And so today in the post I get my copy of 'The 2016 EU referendum Voting Guide'

In it both Leave and Remain have one side of A5 to state their case.

And so what to Leave choose to highlight

EU law controls UK immigration policy

Really? - the EU controls immigration policy for non-EU immigration?

'The EU costs us £350 million a week...'

OK - we might well accept that it does - but Leave go on to state

'If we Vote Leave...We will take back control. We will stop sending £350 million of our money to Brussels every week and instead spend it on our priorities like the NHS

Oh come on Leave - you know that that is disingenuous - but hey - who cares.

Except clearly Leave think that of all the facts and statements they could put on one side of A5 - these are two of the five things they choose to highlight - one other being that the EU is growing (true-ish - as it might grow); another being a repeat of the £350million cost; and the last being about Remaining.

And that is it.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

And so today in the post I get my copy of 'The 2016 EU referendum Voting Guide'

In it both Leave and Remain have one side of A5 to state their case.

And so what to Leave choose to highlight



Really? - the EU controls immigration policy for non-EU immigration?



OK - we might well accept that it does - but Leave go on to state



Oh come on Leave - you know that that is disingenuous - but hey - who cares.

Except clearly Leave think that of all the facts and statements they could put on one side of A5 - these are two of the five things they choose to highlight - one other being that the EU is growing (true-ish - as it might grow); another being a repeat of the £350million cost; and the last being about Remaining.

And that is it.

Going to do the same cutting analysis for Remain? I don't support either at the mo, but don'tlike it when people so blatantly look at only one side.

 

[jp5]

And that is it.

What did you make of remain's case?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

What did you make of remain's case?

Remain largely expressed benefits - that you may well disagree with or argue with.

But to have two key points as simply not true or hugely disingenuous. The EU does not control UK immigration policy; and there will not be £350 million available for spending on the NHS. Well actually I suppose there could be, but that would mean a lot of other stuff currently funded by the EU losing out. Yes - I know that's the choice Brexit and their statement points out. Control on spending that would mean the UK could spend £350 million on the NHS and let everything else EU-funded wither on the vine - or just immediately die.

 

[jp5]

I've not yet read the leaflet but perhaps will have the joy of doing so later. Is it the Electoral Commission one?

Undoubtedly the free movement of EU citizens does impact on our immigration policy, which ends up being a bit lopsided. Would like to see a more balanced approach to non-EU citizens as well, but not sure if leaving the EU is a price worth paying for that.

Not sure why Brexit are still peddling the £350m/week figure, takes all of 10 seconds to debunk that one. Could use the actual figure after the rebate, or even the figure after taking off EU grants that come back, and it would still be significant! Not a fan of jammy maths.