EU Referendum

[ColchesterFC]

Remain largely expressed benefits - that you may well disagree with or argue with.

But to have two key points as simply not true or hugely disingenuous. The EU does not control UK immigration policy; and there will not be £350 million available for spending on the NHS. Well actually I suppose there could be, but that would mean a lot of other stuff currently funded by the EU losing out. Yes - I know that's the choice Brexit and their statement points out. Control on spending that would mean the UK could spend £350 million on the NHS and let everything else EU-funded wither on the vine - or just immediately die.

Even your own post above doesn't say that Leave will spend £350 million on the NHS. It says that it will be spent on "our priorities like the NHS" not that it will all be spent on the NHS. You're bending what has been said to support your argument.

 

[Fyldewhite]

Even your own post above doesn't say that Leave will spend £350 million on the NHS. It says that it will be spent on "our priorities like the NHS" not that it will all be spent on the NHS. You're bending what has been said to support your argument.

No he isn't, he's saying that the statement is disingenuous at best, lie at worst. It clearly is. As SILH explains, unless ALL the projects that benefit from funding from the EU are simply abandoned, there could NEVER be £350m to spend on "our priorities like the NHS". That's no spin, no slant, no misinformation......just simple logic.

 

[SocketRocket]

Remain largely expressed benefits - that you may well disagree with or argue with.

But to have two key points as simply not true or hugely disingenuous. The EU does not control UK immigration policy; and there will not be £350 million available for spending on the NHS. Well actually I suppose there could be, but that would mean a lot of other stuff currently funded by the EU losing out. Yes - I know that's the choice Brexit and their statement points out. Control on spending that would mean the UK could spend £350 million on the NHS and let everything else EU-funded wither on the vine - or just immediately die.

But those points are true. We have no control of EU immigration, the free movement of people does not allow us any control on numbers coming here from the EU. You know well that it's not talking about immigration from outside.

It also said that the £350 million could be spent on projects LIKE the NHS, it doesn't say it would be spent on the NHS only. You also know that it has been said that the the amount we pay into the EU more than we get back could be spent on the NHS which is a different matter.

You continually give this blinkered one sided argument which really is disingenuous to use your own words. Most people admit there will be risks which ever way we decide to go, it would be disingenuous to suggest there will be no risk to us if we stay in the EU.

Regarding our EU rebate; does anyone honestly believe this will be permanent and not wilted away in the future. Someone will have to fund the demise of the Euro Zone and the costs of more basket case economies joining.

 

[Foxholer]

...
Regarding our EU rebate; does anyone honestly believe this will be permanent and not wilted away in the future. Someone will have to fund the demise of the Euro Zone and the costs of more basket case economies joining.

The next time the Rebate will be negotiated will be about 2019, for period 2020-2027 (every 7 years). UK will have a Veto over any changes - as it has always had!

As a member of the EU, UK will also have a veto over new membership, whether basket cases or not, but only provided it is a member of the EU. If it is not, then it will have NO SAY!

As for 'You continually give this blinkered one sided argument...', see post 1984 !

 

[ColchesterFC]

No he isn't, he's saying that the statement is disingenuous at best, lie at worst. It clearly is. As SILH explains, unless ALL the projects that benefit from funding from the EU are simply abandoned, there could NEVER be £350m to spend on "our priorities like the NHS". That's no spin, no slant, no misinformation......just simple logic.

Yes he is. What SiLH said was "there will not be £350 million available for spending on the NHS". My point was that the Leave campaign hadn't claimed that there would be. So unless you can point me to a link where the Leave campaign have said that there will be £350 million to spend on the NHS then he is bending what has been said to support his argument.

Although I did think that the £350 million figure had been dismissed as incorrect by now and am surprised that it gets mentioned in official Leave literature.

 

[SocketRocket]

The next time the Rebate will be negotiated will be about 2019, for period 2020-2027 (every 7 years). UK will have a Veto over any changes - as it has always had!

As a member of the EU, UK will also have a veto over new membership, whether basket cases or not, but only provided it is a member of the EU. If it is not, then it will have NO SAY!

As for 'You continually give this blinkered one sided argument...', see post 1984 !

Oh! you're back, what a surprise My little onerous Forum stalker troll; who cant resist making acidic comments to just about every one of my posts. You know how this always ends up so why do you not just ignore me, go on, put me on your ignore list if you dont like anything I post. You really are an oddball of the first order

 

[ColchesterFC]

Just having a look at George Osbourne's speech from earlier today where he has said "leaving the single market - in which there are no tariffs, quotas or taxes on trade and where there is free movement of goods, services, capital and people - would cost Britain £200bn in a trade a year - as well as £200bn overseas investment". I'm not arguing for or against his figures here but I wish that he'd given details as to how and why it would cost us that much. If he'd said that these are the costs because of X, Y and Z then the Leave campaign would have to put up a more valid argument that simply "no it won't".

 

[ColchesterFC]

David Cameron has said that the referendum is a "once in a generation, once in a lifetime" decision. Using the Scottish referendum as a reference I can only assume that this means that the losing side will be calling for another referendum by June 2018.

 

[Crazyface]

I'm STILL waiting for the remain people to counter the £350 MILLION from the leave people. If they can do that I'll start to listen.

 

[Crazyface]

Plus the oldies I know and have spoken to don't care and aren't going to vote. The women at my misses work are voting to stay in, but have no idea why.

Education eh? It's a wonderful thing!

 

[ColchesterFC]

I'm STILL waiting for the remain people to counter the £350 MILLION from the leave people. If they can do that I'll start to listen.

The £350 million is our gross contribution before our rebate is considered. As the rebate is deducted from our contribution, rather than being paid and then refunded, we never actually pay the full amount. I think the actual figure is somewhere between £225 and £275 million depending on which figures you look at.

 

[ColchesterFC]

The following figures are from fullfact.org........

In 2015 the UK should have paid £18 billion to the EU.
The rebate reduced this to £13 billion.
This works out as £250 million per week.
In the same year there was £4 billion of EU spending on the UK, mainly to farmers and the poorer regions.

 

[Old Skier]

David Cameron has said that the referendum is a "once in a generation, once in a lifetime" decision. Using the Scottish referendum as a reference I can only assume that this means that the losing side will be calling for another referendum by June 2018.

If we stay he will have to change current EU legislation in Parliament to make this true as it is in UK Law that any significant changes in the way the EU operate would automatically result in a further referendum. He seems to conveniently forget the commitments that have already been made to the British people. Mind you he was in favour of leaving if his none ratified concessions didn't get through.

 

[Fyldewhite]

Yes he is. What SiLH said was "there will not be £350 million available for spending on the NHS". My point was that the Leave campaign hadn't claimed that there would be. So unless you can point me to a link where the Leave campaign have said that there will be £350 million to spend on the NHS then he is bending what has been said to support his argument.

Although I did think that the £350 million figure had been dismissed as incorrect by now and am surprised that it gets mentioned in official Leave literature.

http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/campaign

Disingenuous? Lie? .......you decide.

 

[Old Skier]

http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/campaign

Disingenuous? Lie? .......you decide.

I think the idea of speeding up negotiations and being in control of our own destiny is more appealing.

We have heard a lot about how our security would be in danger if we leave as there wouldn't be a combined response to security matters,

Anyone who is interested in this area know that it is dealt with individualy by all nations along with who tells who what.

It does seem strange that Britain reached satisfactory security measure on air travel with the USA within a few months were as the EU has been going around in circles of the simple matter of coperation of passing information on air travel, so far the negotiations have been going on for 10 years and still no firm agreement has come about.

The EU is like negotiation via committee and all those that have or sit on a committee know the bigger it is the less likely a quick and simple outcome is achieved.

 

[vkurup]

those who say 200, 300, 350b extra will be spent on the NHS & others if we remain ... can i ask where do those billions come from?

those billions are generated from trade ... which a majority of ... hang on.. comes from the EU. So if trade goes down, then the only way to generate the billions is raise taxes....

 

[Old Skier]

those billions are generated from trade ... which a majority of ... hang on.. comes from the EU. So if trade goes down, then the only way to generate the billions is raise taxes....

As a net importer, how does trade go down? Will country's no longer sell us gear because we left the EU.

 

[Fyldewhite]

The EU is like negotiation via committee and all those that have or sit on a committee know the bigger it is the less likely a quick and simple outcome is achieved.

Fully agree. All government (dictatorships aside) is like this though from local councils, through regional, national and international bodies. Just look at the the UN??? The EU is nothing special in this regard......except when folk are trying to make a case for it being bad. Some would argue that consensus (although it often takes a long time to achieve) is actually a good thing.

 

[MegaSteve]

Just been reading some of the work practices of Ladbrokes...

And, according to remainers, workers are better off while we are part of the EU...

Yeah right, no way Jose... In or out management still tiddle on their workforce...

Wish they'd stop pedalling misinformation...
And, those on the left, supporting remain should be hanging their heads in shame...

Hey ho 'power to the people'....

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

The following figures are from fullfact.org........

In 2015 the UK should have paid £18 billion to the EU.
The rebate reduced this to £13 billion.
This works out as £250 million per week.
In the same year there was £4 billion of EU spending on the UK, mainly to farmers and the poorer regions.

Well said Colch :thup:

So basically, the Remain'ers are banging on about getting £350m back but if we leave then we save BILLIONS

#nobrainer