EU Referendum

[SocketRocket]

btw - an all time low means that nothing (from anyone) has ever been lower - really? He stated a risk - he may well have over-egged it. But 70 yrs is but a blink of an eye in the history of Europe. If he thinks that the EU is a stabilising force that causes Putin to act more pragmatically and reasonably than he might - then undermining the future coherence of the EU by the UK leaving isn't a great move. That notwithstanding - BoJo can apply his usual 'assertion and supposition' approach that it was because the EU was so attractive to the Ukraine that triggered the Russia/Ukraine crisis.

If the member states of the EU thought that the UK leaving would destabilise or undermine the coherence of the EU then they should have been a bit more understanding of our concerns and been a bit more generous with Cameron's negotiations. If we leave and the EU stumbles it will be of their own making by not understanding the UK's concerns with items like immigration.

 

[Old Skier]

I see the a remain Camp have completely forgotten Cameron's speech from a couple of years back to the CBI stating that we should have no fear of breaking away from the EU.

 

[Old Skier]

If the member states of the EU thought that the UK leaving would destabilise or undermine the coherence of the EU then they should have been a bit more understanding of our concerns and been a bit more generous with Cameron's negotiations. If we leave and the EU stumbles it will be of their own making by not understanding the UK's concerns with items like immigration.

Are these the piece meal reforms that have not been ratified and the EU Parliament has made no move to ratify.

 

[Foxholer]

If the member states of the EU thought that the UK leaving would destabilise or undermine the coherence of the EU then they should have been a bit more understanding of our concerns and been a bit more generous with Cameron's negotiations. If we leave and the EU stumbles it will be of their own making by not understanding the UK's concerns with items like immigration.

Now this is something I (almost) totally agree with! oo:

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I see the a remain Camp have completely forgotten Cameron's speech from a couple of years back to the CBI stating that we should have no fear of breaking away from the EU.

You mean that Cameron has forgotten...or maybe he's changed his ideas as BoJo has (maybe) - as BoJo was telling John Humphrys this morning when asked about his previous enthusiasm for the EU.

 

[ColchesterFC]

You mean that Cameron has forgotten...or maybe he's changed his ideas as BoJo has (maybe) - as BoJo was telling John Humphrys this morning when asked about his previous enthusiasm for the EU.

Would this be in the same way that Cameron has forgotten/changed his ideas on leaving the EU? He said a few months ago that if his renegotiation with the EU didn't achieve what he was looking for then he could recommend voting to leave the EU but now he is saying that it would be such a disaster to leave and could threaten peace in Europe. You seem as keen as Cameron to avoid this point even though it has been directed at you on at least two previous occasions.

 

[SocketRocket]

You mean that Cameron has forgotten...or maybe he's changed his ideas as BoJo has (maybe) - as BoJo was telling John Humphrys this morning when asked about his previous enthusiasm for the EU.

Boris is a fan of Europe, I believe he has lived there and loves it, a bit like most of us in this country. It's the institutions of the EU that are the problem for him and us. Most people, including Brexiters have no problem with the countries and people, its the EU that smothers the individuality and free spirit of countries that we dont like. I have some fantastic friends in Europe and will always treasure their friendship.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Boris is a fan of Europe, I believe he has lived there and loves it, a bit like most of us in this country. It's the institutions of the EU that are the problem for him and us. Most people, including Brexiters have no problem with the countries and people, its the EU that smothers the individuality and free spirit of countries that we dont like. I have some fantastic friends in Europe and will always treasure their friendship.

And apparently BoJo had two statements of support written - one for his conviction support of Leave - one for his conviction support of Remain . When asked on that by JH - BoJo basically ignored the question - blustering about folks being allowed to change their minds.

 

[MegaSteve]

Hopefully folk will be looking beyond the 'characters' at the front of the platforms....

Pretty please...

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

Hopefully folk will be looking beyond the 'characters' at the front of the platforms....

Pretty please...

But then people might have to consider actual reasons, instead of who they like the most. And that has never caught on.

 

[SocketRocket]

And apparently BoJo had two statements of support written - one for his conviction support of Leave - one for his conviction support of Remain . When asked on that by JH - BoJo basically ignored the question - blustering about folks being allowed to change their minds.

And you know this as a fact?

 

[Foxholer]

And you know this as a fact?

Surely the word 'apparently' is an indication!

Personally, I wouldn't be at all surprised! He did, after all, state something along the lines of 'racking his conscience over the decision', though politicians and consciences don't seem to fit naturally - where best to place/target their allegiance is more likely imo!

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Hopefully folk will be looking beyond the 'characters' at the front of the platforms....

Pretty please...

I would truly love to look well beyond that absolutely horrible bunch of opportunists who are leading the leave campaign.
Would you buy a second hand car off any of them ?

 

[ColchesterFC]

Don't think I'd buy a second hand car off any of them regardless of which side of the debate they're on.

I see that Leave are miffed/angry/annoyed that the ITV debate will feature David Cameron for Remain and Nigel Farage on the side of Leave even though he isn't a member of the official Leave campaign. There are suggestions that ITV were desperate to get Cameron on the debate and pretty much let him chose his opponent so he went for Farage rather than Boris or anyone else that Leave might have wanted to put forward. The thinking behind it being that Farage is a far more divisive figure and is likely to come across less well than others might. There are threats of legal action from the Leave campaign to allow them to put forward their own choice of representative for the debate.

 

[SocketRocket]

Surely the word 'apparently' is an indication!

Personally, I wouldn't be at all surprised! He did, after all, state something along the lines of 'racking his conscience over the decision', though politicians and consciences don't seem to fit naturally - where best to place/target their allegiance is more likely imo!

Apparently Cameron has been lying through is teeth by underestimating the number of immigrants from the EU by 50,000 a year. Apparently Corbyn really wants us to leave the EU.

Apparently you are stalking my posts.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Surely the word 'apparently' is an indication!

Personally, I wouldn't be at all surprised! He did, after all, state something along the lines of 'racking his conscience over the decision', though politicians and consciences don't seem to fit naturally - where best to place/target their allegiance is more likely imo!

If you listen to the interview you will hear JH asking the question and trying to get BoJo to answer it. BoJo ignored it the first times asked then blustered about everyone being allowed to change their mind. He did not deny that he had two statements when it would have been very easy for him to do so if in fact it was not the case.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

In any case - what does the Governor of the BoE and all nine members of the Monetary Policy Committee know...when Leave can field Tim 'Witherspins' and Norman Lament to put the counter-case.

And as usual lots of noise and anger from the Brexiteers over this. Well just imagine if the guv and the committee say nothing about their thoughts and predictions over exit - and we do - and the predictions come to pass. As Her Maj said about 2008 - 'It's awful - Why did nobody see it coming?' Except this time they would have.

And so it is ESSENTIAL to the debate that this surely most informed and believable group of experts should air their views and concerns. To tell the to keep shtum, or to dismiss their views on the basis that they don't always get things right, is just arrant nonsense.

If you don't like what they say then just ignore them - but they have to be heard.

 

[SocketRocket]

In any case - what does the Governor of the BoE and all nine members of the Monetary Policy Committee know...when Leave can field Tim 'Witherspins' and Norman Lament to put the counter-case.

And as usual lots of noise and anger from the Brexiteers over this. Well just imagine if the guv and the committee say nothing about their thoughts and predictions over exit - and we do - and the predictions come to pass. As Her Maj said about 2008 - 'It's awful - Why did nobody see it coming?' Except this time they would have.

And so it is ESSENTIAL to the debate that this surely most informed and believable group of experts should air their views and concerns. To tell the to keep shtum, or to dismiss their views on the basis that they don't always get things right, is just arrant nonsense.

If you don't like what they say then just ignore them - but they have to be heard.

You are convinced so what's the matter. I'm not but I don't get into a lather over your opinion.

 

[jp5]

I struggle to believe Cameron truly believes that Brexit would be as bad as any of these institutions say it would be, otherwise he wouldn't have professed he was prepared to support us leaving, or even called the referendum in the first place.

 

[SocketRocket]

I struggle to believe Cameron truly believes that Brexit would be as bad as any of these institutions say it would be, otherwise he wouldn't have professed he was prepared to support us leaving, or even called the referendum in the first place.

It's difficult to understand what drives the comments of people like him. They have many hidden agendas and want to be seen as all things to all men, so it's almost impossible to understand who he really speaks for. I get the impression it's not the man in the street though.