EU Referendum

[Old Skier]

Look - you know exactly what I'm saying here. If I have to spell it out I will. The EU sets environmental standards that the UK has to adhere to. i do not trust any UK government - especially any wedded to cuts in public spending - to not sacrifice environmental protections and standards at the alter of their predilections - especially when these have short term political benefit.

Have you been to the loo in Greece, parts of Spain, Italy and Portugal not to mention some of the old eastern bloc now EU members?

I really wouldn't worry about our standards dropping to those of large parts of the EU.

 

[Ethan]

Just had a brief look through that and there are some things on there that I would say are benefits of staying in the EU but others (from the flow chart type thing with the 4 colours) that I just don't understand why they would change. Things such as clean beaches and bathing water, recycling, cheaper telecoms, food labelling, fair airline ticket pricing and importing cars. I can't see why those things would have to change if we left the EU. It's not like we're suddenly going to be dumping raw sewage onto our blue flag beaches just because we leave. Perhaps someone could explain as there must be more to it but I'm just not seeing it.

Environmental protection and consumer rights are not big features of Tory policy. They prefer to let the dead hand of the market control these things. That only ever means one thing, the average person getting screwed.

 

[SocketRocket]

This commonwealth and the close ties we have, is that Australia who talk about becoming a republic or New Zealand were they are changing the flag or Canada were 20% of the population speak French?
The Commonwealth and what it means to us is age related imo.

Maybe if you read and tried to digest the discussion you would see that the conversation didn't relate to the UK's ties to OZ and NZ. I stated a personal preference that I felt more akin to people in these countries tha I did with countries in the EU. I guess I am allowed to hold these views?

 

[SocketRocket]

Environmental protection and consumer rights are not big features of Tory policy. They prefer to let the dead hand of the market control these things. That only ever means one thing, the average person getting screwed.

I think you may be confusing the current Government with a real Tory one!

Why do you have to blame the Right for everything

 

[SocketRocket]

Look - you know exactly what I'm saying here. If I have to spell it out I will. The EU sets environmental standards that the UK has to adhere to. i do not trust any UK government - especially any wedded to cuts in public spending - to not sacrifice environmental protections and standards at the alter of their predilections - especially when these have short term political benefit.

You don't trust any UK government! Why not do something proactive, would you not feel better suited to live in an EU country that is committed to full Federal integration to closer EU union. Somewhere like Scotland?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Maybe if you read and tried to digest the discussion you would see that the conversation didn't relate to the UK's ties to OZ and NZ. I stated a personal preference that I felt more akin to people in these countries tha I did with countries in the EU. I guess I am allowed to hold these views?

I follow this thread closely thank you as I am undecided and read a lot of valid points and confusing points, my comment was merely on the point about us trading with the commonwealth when we do that anyway and in recent years have seen them not us move away from Britain, even on a Military basis problem during your time and my early career we were heavily involved with jount training with Commonwealth countries were as recently the majority is done with European nations, not that I see either an in or out vote changing that.

 

[Foxholer]

Have you been to the loo in Greece, parts of Spain, Italy and Portugal not to mention some of the old eastern bloc now EU members?

I really wouldn't worry about our standards dropping to those of large parts of the EU.

Even quite a bit of France - with the squat toilettes à la turque.

As to the Commonwealth vs Europe, I remember this discussion (as a Commonwealth citizen) when UK joined the EEC. The argument at the time was that UK had become naturally linked with Europe both trade and culturally and that, while the Commonwealth was extremely important, it as natural to look more towards Europe as the 'major' partner!

I do remember it having quite an effect, with NZ losing a guaranteed market for 35000 tons of Butter and the price of both Lamb and Beef increasing dramatically because of EU rules about subsidies - both after periods of transition. At the time, 'the French' were blamed, and that was even before they sank the Rainbow Warrior!

It actually made NZ more independent, so imo was a good thing!

The main link these days is a, pretty much, common language and sporting rivalries, though military relationships are still, understandably, quite strong.

 

[MarkE]

The UK and Europe have always had a natural mistrust of each other. That will never change and we are destined to be uneasy bedfellows whether we are in the EU or not. (Moreso if we are in). Whereas we have a natural affinity to commonwealth countries.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And so some are asking - what's the difference between the Director General of the BCC saying what he did and being suspended then chosing to resign, and the Governor of the BoE saying what he said yesterday and that's OK?

It is true that both the BoE and BCC have said they will be neutral on Leave/Remain so how come the guy expressing concerns about leaving is OK whilst the guy expressing positives about leaving is not. Foul! the cry goes up.

Well quite straightforward I think. The DG of the BCC expressed a personal view when addressing the BCC Annual Conferernce - he didn't have to and it wasn't the place or time to do that; the Gov of the BoE was asked the question by the HoC Treasury Select Committee. And so he stated the risk of Leave as the BoE sees it. Not his opinion - the corporate BoE view of the risk.

That's why one had to go and the other doesn't

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You don't trust any UK government! Why not do something proactive, would you not feel better suited to live in an EU country that is committed to full Federal integration to closer EU union. Somewhere like Scotland?

Unfortunately in the political climate we live in I don't really trust any UK government to put what could be spun as 'nice-to-haves' ahead of short term politically expediency. Though some flavours of government will clearly be less inclined to do so than others.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

The UK and Europe have always had a natural mistrust of each other. That will never change and we are destined to be uneasy bedfellows whether we are in the EU or not. (Moreso if we are in). Whereas we have a natural affinity to commonwealth countries.

Well I for one certainly have no natural affinity with the peoples of Australia, New Zealand or Canada or any other Commonwealth country.

For many years now Australia, for example, has seen its natural trading partners to be in SE Asia or the West Coast of USA and, in view of geographical location and the change in the ethnicity of their population that is perfectly understandable.

We may share a language with some of these countries but then so we do with America and I don't feel a natural affinity towards that country.

 

[MarkE]

I was talking in general terms as a nation, not personally. Probably due to the fact we have been at each others throats with one part or another of Europe since the dark ages.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I was talking in general terms as a nation, not personally. Probably due to the fact we have been at each others throats with one part or another of Europe since the dark ages.

Whereas we colonised these Commonwealth countries.

Who are we supposed to have the affinity with; the colonists, be they immigrants or originally convicts, or the indigenous peoples of these countries? Australian, aborigines, Maoris or North American Indians.

 

[SocketRocket]

Well I for one certainly have no natural affinity with the peoples of Australia, New Zealand or Canada or any other Commonwealth country.

For many years now Australia, for example, has seen its natural trading partners to be in SE Asia or the West Coast of USA and, in view of geographical location and the change in the ethnicity of their population that is perfectly understandable.

We may share a language with some of these countries but then so we do with America and I don't feel a natural affinity towards that country.

A lot of them died on D Day and supporting us in just about every major conflict in both World Wars. I would say we owe them rather a lot and will remember them. You may have no affinity with them and thats fine but unlike you I have a great number of relatives living there and they certainly hold their links to the UK dearly.

 

[SocketRocket]

Whereas we colonised these Commonwealth countries.

Who are we supposed to have the affinity with; the colonists, be they immigrants or originally convicts, or the indigenous peoples of these countries? Australian, aborigines, Maoris or North American Indians.

Thats like suggesting we should have an affinity to European countries due to our ancestors coming here over the land bridge at the end of the last ice age.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I see the S@n is doing what it does best - print pure lies and fabrications in regards the Queens view on EU

 

[Old Skier]

And so some are asking - what's the difference between the Director General of the BCC saying what he did and being suspended then chosing to resign, and the Governor of the BoE saying what he said yesterday and that's OK?

It is true that both the BoE and BCC have said they will be neutral on Leave/Remain so how come the guy expressing concerns about leaving is OK whilst the guy expressing positives about leaving is not. Foul! the cry goes up.

Well quite straightforward I think. The DG of the BCC expressed a personal view when addressing the BCC Annual Conferernce - he didn't have to and it wasn't the place or time to do that; the Gov of the BoE was asked the question by the HoC Treasury Select Committee. And so he stated the risk of Leave as the BoE sees it. Not his opinion - the corporate BoE view of the risk.

That's why one had to go and the other doesn't

Man should be sacked. Economic migrant looking at what's best for him

 

[Pants]

I see the S@n is doing what it does best - print pure lies and fabrications in regards the Queens view on EU

And your proof of this is ?????????

Oh yes, could it be that that nice Nick Clegg "has no recollection" of this?

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Thats like suggesting we should have an affinity to European countries due to our ancestors coming here over the land bridge at the end of the last ice age.

There is obviously a time limit on your appreciation of history in that we should, quite rightly, acknowledge the debt we owe for the support of all Empire and Dominion states during the two World Wars but then overlook the fact that Britain had colonised these countries in the first place and subjugated the indigenous populations.

As for the landbridge connection I am no anthropologist but it would appear to me that, as a nation, we have most in common racially with the peoples of Northern Europe rather than those of the Commonwealth nations.

By all means let us use facts to support our arguments but we should be careful not to be creative with history.

 

[Leftie]

Who do you believe less - the Sun or a politician? Tricky one that.

If Clegg had categorically denied it, then I would have been more inclined to believe him. Copping out with "no recollection" is saying that "you may very well think that but I couldn't possible comment".

In my opinion of course