EU Referendum

[SocketRocket]

You could say that for any individual state, but on the basis of the political spectrum they will work with similar parties from other countries to achieve shared aims.

You do understand that our main representation is by UKIP?

 

[jp5]

Where as i believe it's in our own interest to see ourselves prosper first - issues may not be resolved if we left the EU but then we would at least be able to make our own changes - instead of putting money into sorting out someone else medical services we put that money into sorting our own out first as an example.

I don't see the EU as a fair society - it doesn't encourage the poorer countries to help themselves first and foremost - it allows them to be bailed out.

There is a big world beyond Europe and other countries have no problems prospering without the EU - so why shouldn't we

What type of changes would you like to see that aren't possible as members of the EU?

"other countries have no problems prospering without the EU" is very vague! If you look at the G7 our economy has been the fastest growing in the past couple of years. It may grow even quicker outside the EU, but there's also a risk that it could go the other way - and stating such isn't scaremongering! All things considered, at the moment it doesn't feel worth rolling the dice.

 

[jp5]

You do understand that our main representation is by UKIP?

Well UKIP have 24 of the 73 seats, so not quite our "main representation". A significant chunk nevertheless, and suspect there is no coincidence that the absolute number of votes for UKIP was very similar between the European and General Elections.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

What type of changes would you like to see that aren't possible as members of the EU?

"other countries have no problems prospering without the EU" is very vague! If you look at the G7 our economy has been the fastest growing in the past couple of years. It may grow even quicker outside the EU, but there's also a risk that it could go the other way - and stating such isn't scaremongering! All things considered, at the moment it doesn't feel worth rolling the dice.

The ability to spend our money where we see fit

The ability to broker trade deals with other areas outside of the EU on the terms we decide between those countries

The ability to decide who and how many people from the EU will allow to come to work in this country

The ability to dictate levels of fish and farming people can do within our lands and water

The ability to create and adjust laws that affect our people in our country.

And be the masters of our destiny.

 

[Del_Boy]

So as a country that is a net contributor do we have the same sort majority say for where the money goes ?

Wish the same logic worked in terms of the taxes I pay in against the benefit I get out

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

The ability to spend our money where we see fit We already have this

The ability to broker trade deals with other areas outside of the EU on the terms we decide between those countries Do you actually think we hold morepower than the EU and could therefore negotiate better deals?

The ability to decide who and how many people from the EU will allow to come to work in this country Do you think we would actually limit it more than currently, given our need for working age people

The ability to dictate levels of fish and farming people can do within our lands and water Minor, minor point.

The ability to create and adjust laws that affect our people in our country. We already have this

And be the masters of our destiny If the option was to fail by ourselves or succeed as part of the EU, would you still share this view?

Comments in the above quote (for everyone, not just LPP)

 

[FairwayDodger]

Why is that absurd ?

Pretty obvious, isn't it? How does any organisation that refunds 100% of its member's subs fund itself?

We pay to be part of the EU and we get certain benefits (and obligations) for that. You can have a legitimate discussion as to whether or not we get value for money but anyone who thinks we should get back all the money we put in is being ridiculous.

 

[Hobbit]

The ability to spend our money where we see fit

The ability to broker trade deals with other areas outside of the EU on the terms we decide between those countries

The ability to decide who and how many people from the EU will allow to come to work in this country

The ability to dictate levels of fish and farming people can do within our lands and water

The ability to create and adjust laws that affect our people in our country.

And be the masters of our destiny.

How very dare you be so aspirational! Don't you know that Chicken Licken told Henny Penny the sky is falling down...

 

[jp5]

The ability to spend our money where we see fit

The ability to broker trade deals with other areas outside of the EU on the terms we decide between those countries

The ability to decide who and how many people from the EU will allow to come to work in this country

The ability to dictate levels of fish and farming people can do within our lands and water

The ability to create and adjust laws that affect our people in our country.

And be the masters of our destiny.

A fair list, particularly with regards to migration, but I think many points are overstated.

I guess it comes down to whether one believes we will continue to do as well economically outside the EU. Just looking at the fall of the pound when BoJo announced his decision gives me reservations on that!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Comments in the above quote (for everyone, not just LPP)

So we can dictate where every penny goes or do we put money into the EU pot then the EU spends it ? If we put in 14 billion for example do we get to say where every single one of those pounds gets spent ?

How much trade do we have with other commonwealth countries for example ? Should we not have the ability to trade with them without having to go via the EU ?

Yes I believe we could determine the levels of people coming into the country to suit us not the rest of Europe.

It's not a minor point to all the farmers and fisherman who have seen their livelihoods put at risk due to quotas imposed on our waters and our land by other countries ?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Pretty obvious, isn't it? How does any organisation that refunds 100% of its member's subs fund itself?

We pay to be part of the EU and we get certain benefits (and obligations) for that. You can have a legitimate discussion as to whether or not we get value for money but anyone who thinks we should get back all the money we put in is being ridiculous.

Hence why I believe our country shouldn't be part of the organisation to ensure we can dictate where we spend all our money and attempt to get more value for our own money

 

[Hobbit]

Comments in the above quote (for everyone, not just LPP)

#1. No we don't. The EU laws on subsidies is very clear. Even though the UK wanted to give a number of reliefs and subsidies to the steel industry, the EU laws wouldn't allow it.

#2. The EU stipulates a single trade tariff based on the country its coming from and the commodity they have. We have argued many times for preferred terms for our Commonwealth countries but been told no.

#3. Do you honestly think an open border policy with all of the EU actually suits everyone? People migrate towards wealth, not away from it, that's why the southern European countries are only staging posts for people passing through.

#5 Create and adjust laws.... eldest daughter is a senior barrister in govt... hahahahaha... you couldn't be further from the truth....hahhahahahaha

Your last point is a loaded question, and is barely worth a response. Of course everyone wants to succeed.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

A fair list, particularly with regards to migration, but I think many points are overstated.

I guess it comes down to whether one believes we will continue to do as well economically outside the EU. Just looking at the fall of the pound when BoJo announced his decision gives me reservations on that!

I think points on both sides are always over stated

I'm very much in favour of strength in numbers but I believe we can be that power of strength within the combined countries of the U.K.

When i look at the list of what the EU does for us - it's quite hard to see something on there that either we couldn't achieve by ourselves or something that isn't that strong enough of a reason to stay within the EU

Always will be reservations if going on your own and there will no doubt be a political backlash from other countries but I do have a strong belief that once that does die down we would find our place pretty quickly within the world and EU wouldn't just stop dealing with us and we would find ourselves in a stronger position.

 

[jp5]

It's not a minor point to all the farmers and fisherman who have seen their livelihoods put at risk due to quotas imposed on our waters and our land by other countries ?

And why are those quotas in place?

 

[jp5]

#1. No we don't. The EU laws on subsidies is very clear. Even though the UK wanted to give a number of reliefs and subsidies to the steel industry, the EU laws wouldn't allow it.

#2. The EU stipulates a single trade tariff based on the country its coming from and the commodity they have. We have argued many times for preferred terms for our Commonwealth countries but been told no.

#3. Do you honestly think an open border policy with all of the EU actually suits everyone? People migrate towards wealth, not away from it, that's why the southern European countries are only staging posts for people passing through.

#5 Create and adjust laws.... eldest daughter is a senior barrister in govt... hahahahaha... you couldn't be further from the truth....hahhahahahaha

Your last point is a loaded question, and is barely worth a response. Of course everyone wants to succeed.

Unfortunately this part just discredits everything else you've written.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

And why are those quotas in place?

Decline is stocks in the waters - which hasn't changed a bit since the policy came into place but has affected whole towns

 

[jp5]

I think points on both sides are always over stated

I'm very much in favour of strength in numbers but I believe we can be that power of strength within the combined countries of the U.K.

When i look at the list of what the EU does for us - it's quite hard to see something on there that either we couldn't achieve by ourselves or something that isn't that strong enough of a reason to stay within the EU

Always will be reservations if going on your own and there will no doubt be a political backlash from other countries but I do have a strong belief that once that does die down we would find our place pretty quickly within the world and EU wouldn't just stop dealing with us and we would find ourselves in a stronger position.

Similarly at the moment I am not seeing a compelling reason for making such a big decision. To have an immigration policy would be the key one for me, though currently not convinced if that is worth the risk to the economy, effect on jobs etc. Feels a bit isolationist, especially at a time as politics in general seems to be diverging from the center ground.

 

[jp5]

Decline is stocks in the waters - which hasn't changed a bit since the policy came into place but has affected whole towns

What would the solution be if we weren't constrained by the quotas? More intensive fishing may rejuvenate towns in the short term but it doesn't seem sustainable.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Similarly at the moment I am not seeing a compelling reason for making such a big decision. To have an immigration policy would be the key one for me, though currently not convinced if that is worth the risk to the economy, effect on jobs etc. Feels a bit isolationist, especially at a time as politics in general seems to be diverging from the center ground.

Totally respect your choice and desicion because it looks like you aren't fully of negatives and scaremongering etc

I still think that there needs to be more information given from both sides instead of the current tactics being deployed

 

[Deleted member 15344]

What would the solution be if we weren't constrained by the quotas? More intensive fishing may rejuvenate towns in the short term but it doesn't seem sustainable.

Again it's all guesswork right now because it's so very hard to judge when or even if stocks would run out - the stocks could last decades and decades

But even if a quota is needed it should be decided and run by ourselves not the EU

Also under this policy if a boat catches more than the quota they have to thrown the fish back - dead ! How daft is that