EU Referendum

[HomerJSimpson]

A number of posters on here have countered the Stay campaign with reasoned arguments, and some emotional ones too. Is it really necessary to trawl through the thread and paraphrase them for you, or maybe you are capable of doing that?

First and foremost, for me, it's about self determination. It's about us deciding what we do, not a group of countries who, quite honestly, are making decisions that in truth have a bias based in what they want for themselves, as we do. It's flawed because of the natural nationalism that exists.

Financially, we get nothing from the EU! Yes, that's right, nothing. We pay in more than we get out. £14 billion pounds more! I hear cries of "but the EU funded x&y. No they didn't, we did. Every project that receives EU funding only receives up to a maximum of half the overall cost of the project. And as we're a nett contributor, we're actually funding all of the project.

But what about trade barriers? We import more than we export. If they put barriers in place, we would do the same. Imagine the pressure that industries in an EU country would exert on its government if the governments action led to it being harder to export to the UK. We would also be free to create trade agreements with countries outside of the EU, which we can't currently do. And we'd also be allowed to subsidise industries at levels we determine - I'm sure the steelworkers would have preferred to be told they would receive x subsidy rather than we're not allowed to subsidise you because it's against EU laws.

And then we often read your argument of a Tory government unfettered by EU employment laws - your scaremongering! The workers, and the general populace have proven time and again, via the ballot box and strike action that they are well capable of curbing governments, Tory and Labour. But on the issue of democracy, you want to curb a lawfully elected Tory government by using powers of a third party rather than accept the will of other UK citizens who voted that government in? Really? Really, truly? I find that unpalatable.

Pretty hard to find fault in that reasoned response

 

[ColchesterFC]

What do you think of the French Politicians comments about border control and a refugee camp moving from Calasis and into UK ?

Is that "scaremongering" ?

I think it's valid to suggest that scaremongering happens on both sides of the vote

The first part isn't scaremongering as I imagine most if not all border controls would move to the UK. We currently have a bilateral agreement with the French for UK border agency staff to be based in Calais and if that agreement were to be cancelled then the border control would return to the UK.

The second part is 100% scaremongering. Cameron has also previously mentioned it. There would be no need for a refugee camp in the UK as under EU law we could return anyone trying to enter the UK illegally straight back to France to be processed there.

 

[shewy]

Flood the tunnel

 

[MarkE]

What do you think of the French Politicians comments about border control and a refugee camp moving from Calasis and into UK ?

Is that "scaremongering" ?

I think it's valid to suggest that scaremongering happens on both sides of the vote

If France processed the immigrants correctly there would'nt be an issue. The migrants at the jungle should have been settled in France long ago. As for some French minister trying to influence the way the UK public will vote, just smacks of more desperation from the 'stay' campaign. They really have no qualms about who they get to spread the propaganda and fear.
Border control between uk/France has nothing to do with the eu.

 

[SocketRocket]

If France processed the immigrants correctly there would'nt be an issue. The migrants at the jungle should have been settled in France long ago. As for some French minister trying to influence the way the UK public will vote, just smacks of more desperation from the 'stay' campaign. They really have no qualms about who they get to spread the propaganda and fear.
Border control between uk/France has nothing to do with the eu.

Good point and one that tends to be ignored. France is acting against the international conventions with regards to refugees and asylum seekers. These people in Calais, Dunkirk etc are either illegal immigrants or refugees/asylum seekers and as such should be dealt with by the French, not just conveniently ignored because they say they want to get to the UK. There would be no camps in Dover as we would act correctly and either insist they either claimed asylum or we would remove them as illegals and move them to a detention centre. This French setup is a disgrace.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Good point and one that tends to be ignored. France is acting against the international conventions with regards to refugees and asylum seekers. These people in Calais, Dunkirk etc are either illegal immigrants or refugees/asylum seekers and as such should be dealt with by the French, not just conveniently ignored because they say they want to get to the UK. There would be no camps in Dover as we would act correctly and either insist they either claimed asylum or we would remove them as illegals and move them to a detention centre. This French setup is a disgrace.

Surely the nations who are acting against the international conventions are those EU member states where the refugees/asylum seekers first arrive as I understood that asylum should be sought in the first state.

However, this is a situation that is far too serious for pointing fingers at each other unless, of course, it fits someone's Francophobe prejudices.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Surely the nations who are acting against the international conventions are those EU member states where the refugees/asylum seekers first arrive as I understood that asylum should be sought in the first state.

However, this is a situation that is far too serious for pointing fingers at each other unless, of course, it fits someone's Francophobe prejudices.

How dare you speak about my cheese eating surrender monkey friends like that. I have no Francophobe prejudices, some of my best friends eat croissants I'll have you know.

 

[Khamelion]

Kraxx wrote this about Brexit on his facebook page, it also got copied to Boris Johnsons FB page and a few other different media online media outlets.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

A number of posters on here have countered the Stay campaign with reasoned arguments, and some emotional ones too. Is it really necessary to trawl through the thread and paraphrase them for you, or maybe you are capable of doing that?

I appreciate those supporting Leave have made their arguments here - but I was talking about the Leave Campaign. And it is those representing the Leave Campaign (and the Remain Campaign) that most voters see and hear. The reasoned debate going on in this forum is not visible out there. All am am saying is that I would like to hear more of the Leave Campaign rebutting the points being made by Remain - instead of just complaining/claiming 'scaremongering'. That retort doesn't help anyone make an informed decision,.

 

[SocketRocket]

I appreciate those supporting Leave have made their arguments here - but I was talking about the Leave Campaign. And it is those representing the Leave Campaign (and the Remain Campaign) that most voters see and hear. The reasoned debate going on in this forum is not visible out there. All am am saying is that I would like to hear more of the Leave Campaign rebutting the points being made by Remain - instead of just complaining/claiming 'scaremongering'. That retort doesn't help anyone make an informed decision,.

Read this:

http://www.betteroffout.net/the-case/10-eu-myths-about-withdrawl/

 

[SocketRocket]

Surely the nations who are acting against the international conventions are those EU member states where the refugees/asylum seekers first arrive as I understood that asylum should be sought in the first state.

However, this is a situation that is far too serious for pointing fingers at each other unless, of course, it fits someone's Francophobe prejudices.

France needs some fingers pointed at them over their policy in Calais. If that makes me or anyone a Francophobe then so be it.

I believe there is a committee in Bruxelles who have been doing a study for a few years into the possible advantages of straight croissants that can be filled with straight bananas. Not exactly a clincher but will probably add a little sway for the 'STAY' group and undecided voter.

 

[Khamelion]

Read this:

http://www.betteroffout.net/the-case/10-eu-myths-about-withdrawl/

When going to the link above I got this



So I didn't bother.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Read this:

http://www.betteroffout.net/the-case/10-eu-myths-about-withdrawl/

Great - let's hear it from the mouths of the Leave Campaign - most folk won't know of this or won't be bothered to read it.

 

[MarkE]

Surely the nations who are acting against the international conventions are those EU member states where the refugees/asylum seekers first arrive as I understood that asylum should be sought in the first state.

However, this is a situation that is far too serious for pointing fingers at each other unless, of course, it fits someone's Francophobe prejudices.

No Francophobe prejudices here. Just pointing out it is the place of France to sort out the 'jungle', not the UK. It's not prejudicial to point out France should be doing what they are legally obliged to, rather than trying to palm off the problem to the UK.

 

[SocketRocket]

When going to the link above I got this

View attachment 18638

So I didn't bother.

Ok when I try it . Are you using a works computer?

 

[SocketRocket]

Great - let's hear it from the mouths of the Leave Campaign - most folk won't know of this or won't be bothered to read it.

I dont get your point here? Is this not what you were asking for?

 

[Deleted member 18588]

No Francophobe prejudices here. Just pointing out it is the place of France to sort out the 'jungle', not the UK. It's not prejudicial to point out France should be doing what they are legally obliged to, rather than trying to palm off the problem to the UK.

They are not legally obliged to deal with this. In law it is the responsibility of the first member state in which the asylum seeker first arrives.

However, it is surely unreasonable to expect Greece to deal with all of them in view of the numbers involved.

It is not a question of palming off a problem.

 

[Foxholer]

France needs some fingers pointed at them over their policy in Calais. If that makes me or anyone a Francophobe then so be it.

I believe there is a committee in Bruxelles who have been doing a study for a few years into the possible advantages of straight croissants that can be filled with straight bananas. Not exactly a clincher but will probably add a little sway for the 'STAY' group and undecided voter.

I'm sure you don't really!

If you do, then that just demonstrates the eager way in which some of those (dare I mention the particular elements of the Press?) that wish to leave will invent propaganda and the gullibility of their followers!

 

[Deleted member 18588]

France needs some fingers pointed at them over their policy in Calais. If that makes me or anyone a Francophobe then so be it.

I believe there is a committee in Bruxelles who have been doing a study for a few years into the possible advantages of straight croissants that can be filled with straight bananas. Not exactly a clincher but will probably add a little sway for the 'STAY' group and undecided voter.

You don't do humour, do you.

 

[SocketRocket]

You don't do humour, do you.

Not very well but I try sometimes.